I keep seeing the word Aryan used to describe Northern Europeans, like the British, Germans and Scandinavians.
THEY ARE NOT ARYAN.
The Aryan/Indo European only describes South Eastern Europeans, Persians, and people into the Northern part of India. They had a population expansion starting about 10,000 years ago, which spread the Indo European languages all over. They only made up a minority of the ancestry in populations North of central Europe. Europeans do speak Indo European languages, but most of us have a different genetic legacy. Ancient Mesolithic hunter-gatherer in the far North, and from the Western Atlantic coast people in England and the West of Europe.
GET IT RIGHT…
Indo-Europeans/Aryans
From Greece to Pakistan
Not Aryans
From Norway, Sweden and Germany
It is kind of funny that the Aryan pride types mostly come from non-Aryan ancestry. I always have a chuckle when I see that one in print. I want to see a street full of the Iranians and Pakistanis next time there’s an Aryan pride march. That would make my day.
Mathilda's Anthropology Blog. 
Dear Mathilda:
I have a lot of information on my blog about Persian aryans. I am sorry to say you are not correct. Also there are no Iranians in Iran. There is no such ethnicity. You can read it on my blog. You are welcome with any questions. thanks.
regards
Oslonor
Come on. Do you really think it’s a coincidence that anywhere we find the r1a haplogroup (which seems to be the vector of indo-european languages/culture and found in Europe mainly in east of Europe and the north of Europe), an European haplogroup (“akin” to R1b) we find also this kind of phenotypes (especially after like 4,000 years of mixing with people black-haired/black-eyed, swarthy or even blacks as the Dravidians) :
afghanistan :
htp://img369.imageshack.us/my.php?image=afghan0al5.jpg
Iran :
India :
actress Aishwarya Rai :
And many more.
Idem in Pakistan.
In the north-east of Afghanistan, there is a region named Nuristan (ex-kafiristan). The Nuristani, their language, is an indo-iranian language (and as such indo-european) and here’s the kind of phenotype we can see sometimes :
Up to one third of the Nuristani people is blond (http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/v1f5/v1f5a040a.html)
Languages related to European languages.
Typically European phenotypes in Asia.
Is that really a coincidence ? ….
It can’t be !
Sorry.
This time I fixed the first link :
The Indo European expansion was from the Turkey area.
Northern europeans are mostly descended form old hunter gatherer groups.
Blondness isn’t exclusive to one group or the other you know. This was rather more about skull shape.
Hi.
I want to make it clear that I’m not a white supremacist, by the way 🙂
“The Indo European expansion was from the Turkey area.”
This is not the most widely accepted hypothesis. An Ukrainian urheimat seems the most plausible right now, as far as I know. (the Yaman culture and its predecessor seems the most likely candidate for the craddle of the indo-europeans)
And what about the Tarim Basim (Xinjiang, Chinese Turkestan a region that is at the same longitude than India but above Tibet) white mummies. The first one (like the Lulan Beauty is 1,800 BC which is tought to be the date of the arrival of the Aryans in India… That’s a lot of coincidences).
Among these white-skinned mummies there are brown, blond and ginger hair.
Among the Uyghurs of the region there are still sometimes blue eyes, fair skin and blond people.
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?section=todaysfeatures&xfile=data/todaysfeatures/2005/april/todaysfeatures_april37.xml
Anyway :
Persian soldier :
Iranian boys :
Iranian Girls :
Pakistanese :
Afghans :
How would you explain all these phenotypes in these Asian regions … in places where, once again, we find European-related languages …. What is the probability that all this is unrelated ?
“Northern europeans are mostly descended form old hunter gatherer groups.”
Evidences of it ?
How comes it seems the more there is a lot of R1a presence in a region, the more there is a propension to find blue-eyed blonds ?
“Blondness isn’t exclusive to one group or the other you know.”
Strangely enough Everywhere we find indo-european languages (Europe, India, Xinjiang, Iran, Aghanistan, Pakistan ) we find European bodily features (despite a mixing with very dark hair, eyes’ color and skin) and the haplogroup (Y-DNA) R1a (the R1 is clearly a marker of “european” white peoples).
What are the probabilities that it is just a coincidence ? Extremely low.
I call that a big hint.
Sure, there are places where we can find blondness and the people are still not speaking european related languages or are very different from Europeans.
The Berbers/Kabyles for instance (European-looking berbers are a tiny minority, just as the presence of the “European-related haplogrous in the population” – we can suppose this people that have European looking phenotypes are related to the Mechtoids, a cromagnoid people (R1*/u6 ? maybe with some R1b/u5 ?) that inhabited the region before the Berbers came about 10,000 yrs ago) :
But there are white/European haplogroups (in it) R1* (if I well understood), U5 (and U6 is related to U5 if I well understood) and H.
We find this R1* also in Egypt what could explain this :
Nofret and Rahotep (part of the Pharaoh family, 4th dynasty (around 2,500 BC) – old kingdom)
Hemiunu, member of the Pharaoh family, architect of the great Pyramid, 4th dynasty (around 2,500 BC) :
Pharaoh Userkaf (around 2,500 BC) :
… and the blond Egyptians frescoes you gave in one of your article.
We also find blond aborigenes in certain regions of Australia, and again a R* (R1* ? ) haplogroup is found in the population :
The Y-DNA haplogroup map I base my words on :
(brown color in the pies)
There is also a R1* presence in north Cameroon (and a bit less up to Mali apparently), but even in some Africans despite the recessive genes and the opposite phenotypes of the original Africans we sometimes can see these kind of things :
Just a theory but still … it’s strange that apparently, everywhere we see blond people we can find an R Haplogroup in the region. That’s a lot of coincidences I think … I see a pattern at work.
Anyway, even if we can find blond peoples not all related to The R1s, the points about indo-european-speaking Asia still stand.
“This was rather more about skull shape.”
We evolute in many ways. Why would it be only about one bodily features ?
—
Sorry for my flawed english. This is not my language.
I made a typo in the first post. Not the “yaman” culture, the YAMNA culture.
..How are Indians not aryan?
Oh so Norwegian , Icelandic, Sweedish etc are not Indo-European Languages? Funny cause all schoolbooks I have teach otherwise, and tell us that “the Nordid race is of Indo-European descent” …. hmmm maybe its all a conpsiracy by the white evil race or are you maybe confusing real science with “leftist” ideology?
…indo-euro is a misnomer. it’s a fantasy
air pudding thought up by scholars who very busily worked their way backwards from
the present through a rather dark glass,
which has since stained linguistic study
considerably.
the academic phase of pie
begins with Bopp’s(the grandfather of hale
bopp?)comparative grandma, ah, grammar,
1853-1852, and, altho it was not the cause
of the american civil war, it has plugged
endless casualtys in the field of language,
set back reason, and paralyzed etymology
to the point we can’t access myth and
history, nor overhaul language itself.
the combination to this vault of scholars
is here now, in the code of letra, in the
language of nauatl, in the dictionary of
rene simeón, 1885. it will be my delight
to work this language, mentioned in the
bible as near eden, but much older, in fact,
NeanderNauatl, until the enchanted, nay
bewitched groves of academe, bewitched
by pie, awake, and reward the world with
their full tenure. tks.
e.g., g/c(r)ammat/l/r c/g(r)ammar/l/tl
camatl(NN)=mouth.
I’d just like to mention that present day europeans are Indo-Europeans/Aryans. Yes, the term “aryan” is indian and persian, but those are originally the same people who also migrated to Europe 4000 to 3000 years ago (and spread their indo-european languages there, such as the celtic, roman or germanic languages). Their original homeland is believed to be southern Ukraine. The people in that second set of photos are very much Aryans (as are those in the first).
…for complete root of aryan/airyana(avestan),
look on eurasian origin of berbers and modern
north afrikans, this blog, my post, at the bottom.
tks
This is an old story. Aryans (or whatever you want to call fair whites) migrate into a warm, dry area, irrigate it, draw in dark people, mixture occurs, then decline.
The latest examples of this are the SW USA, Oz and the Cape Province.
Perhaps some day the Mestizos will proudly point to the ruins of a collapsed Golden Gate Bridge and proclaim, “See what our glorious ancestors built!”
…the word, aryan/airyana(avestan) is
neither persian, nor indian=sindhu(skt)=
tzintli toxaua(N)=the hon. toss(hower)=
xaua(N)=color up/xacauaca(N)=shower,
sprinkle, ah, river/iver(letra)= iuel/r =
iueli(N)=powerful/ iberus(tiber, also)(Lat)=
ebro(Iberia). ber/bears and rivers.
air/lia(letra==ailia(N)=reverential of ay(N)=
to do=ally(work for someone else), also,
air(E). -yana= ya na(N)=already/ya ana/
(gr)an(d)/to the 4=ana(N)=increase, extend,
root of (gr)an(d)=yano(letra)=llano(sp)=
(p)lano(sp)=flat/plain/plane/platform,
etc. alia yani(N)=pilgrims/yani allies/ailia
of the plain/prairie(in this word we see,
-airie/ailia). aryans by original definition
are allys/ay(N)=doers of the desert,
the plains, the prairies, the flatlands,
the desert=yucahtla(N)/yucca(plant)/
yucatan(mayan colony amerindia),
the mayan/mayana(N)=to be hungry,
have appetite, were the naval branch
of the aryana=(m)a(r)yana(letra),
of the (m)a(r)(letra)=mar(sp)=sea.
now, aryan, like the oera linda has
been much abused in word and deed,
cursed by those who never knew
history or themselves. words are
much bigger than those who use
them for specific ends, in fact, they
are the holy spirit of mankind, not
manunkind(e.e.cummings). in the
hands of poets words are safe, but
not in the mouths of politicians. tks
you have made this pade out of ignorance Aryan is the white race you have forgotten the pefllod peoples and their connection to noah this is the reson that all of these non aryan cultures can tell you that the one who where there first and tought the to build where aryan
forgive me pre-flood peoples
Ziusudra who is this can you take the fact that noah was mixed with the gods and” yhwh “chose him that he was rightous this is known to be a blue eyed man have you also noticed that all people have blue eyes when born and then they chage while others stay the same from birth their are facts still being hidden from you
Do you know if anyone done any research in to which DNA haplogroups the ancient Aryans could have been associated with?
I ask this because I recently got my mtDNA tested and it came back that I was part of haplogroup T (which is currently carried by about 10% of the people in Europe) and is associated with the general expansion of agriculture during the Neolithic. It is also the youngest native European mtDNA haplogroup.
Strangely enough, mtDNA haplogroup T can be found as far East as Pakistan/Northwestern India, which is exactly the areas where the ancient Aryans are said to have entered modern Pakistan and India many thousands of years ago.
Has anyone done research on the haplogroup distribution of India’s elite castes and classes? Research has proven that India’s elite castes/classes, which are at least partially descended from ancient Aryans (evidenced by their much lighter skin and more Europeanized [non-Dravidian] features), definitely have more European-derived DNA as opposed to the native low-caste Indian Dravidians; see: http://news.bio-medicine.org/biology-news-2/Scientists-find-link-between-Indian-caste-rank-and-genetic-similarity-to-Europeans-9867-1/
Also, many European royal families are associated with haplogroup T in regards to mtDNA [see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T_(mtDNA)#Popular_Culture%5D possibly their is a ‘royal’ or ‘elite’ component associated with this haplogroup, and that ‘elite’ connection was carried to Pakistan/India by the so called ancient Aryans where they eventually established the racially-based caste system there that persists even to this day?
If a majority of a particular ancestry is required to be included in that ancestral group, then probably the only ethnic groups in Europe containing any significant number of “Aryans” are Poles, Byelorussians, Russians and Ukrainians, and perhaps some N. Caucasus groups.
It is obvious from observing the modern phenotypic geography along with the DNA evidence which shows most ancestry to be very ancient in an area (and in all but the above-mentioned ethnic regions predominantly non-Aryan in Europe).
Unraveling the relationships of the linguistic sub-families of IE (I am using “IE” as = “Aryan”) has involved complex influences among them, often uncertain origins at the time of splitting from PIE, and complex interactions with non-IE languages in the many areas to which IE languages migrated.
“Nordic” peoples are more Uralic and Gravettian than Aryan. Western Europeans more than anything descend from the people of that region 25K bp.
Culturally, probably the most “Aryan” peoples remaining today, in the sense of closest to the tribal steppe culture of the time of PIE, or at least to the Kurgan period culture, are the tribal peoples of remoter Afghanistan and NE Iran. But there as elsewhere, their ancestry is only partly Aryan, as they are mixed with indigenous populations, as in Europe in clines surrounding the Kurgan area and surrounding the route of expansion toward India from that area.
White supremacist “Aryans” have as much grip on reality as any nutball cultists.
Sinajuavi = Paysan the great Anthropologist from R.R.???
I think that term will die hard. The problem is, the whole “Aryan Invasion theory,” (that kick started it) has been wrapped around false origin theory-and rhetoric-for so long, that it’s ingrained in the minds of many. It’s a last resort argument for these Eurocentric (&/or white supremist types) on the losing side of an debate.
The fact is, that even if Aryans did exist as a separate group (at least w/ regard to India), they were of “Mediterranean” (or Middle Eastern) physical type. Saying that “whites” invaded India, would be no different than saying “MEXICANS” fought the Moors in Spain! The fact of the matter is, since their was no Mexica Indian blood (in Spain), Mexicans had nothing to do w/those battles. The same can be said for those Eurocentric Whites out there. Modern Europeans are a mixture of 2 different physical types: Original European (that evolved during the upper Paleolithic in Europe…aka “cro magnon”), and Middle eastern or “Mediterranean” physical types (that initially penetrated Europe-in the neolithic- around 10,000 years ago..at least the balkans/Greece), and populated other areas of Europe in later waves.
If the Cro Magnon element is missing, if a group is PURELY of mediterranean stock, then it cannot be considered “white.” We’ve set those definitions ourselves (I won’t even go into the ridiculousness of trying to classify the whole of the middle east/Europe under a “caucasian” race).
So, in short..Mediterranean/middle eastern types would be “Aryan.” Whites themselves would not be. Also, Mediterraneans would be the ones that built the pyramids (w/ admixture-at times-of sub saharan African blood), built Mohenjodaro & Harrapan (if the Dravidian language group does indeed coincide w/ the mediterranean types in India), built Sumer etc.
Oh,…and to the people who like to throw up the R1a haplotype presence in Europe (and then use that to further their argument that the mythical invasions into India took place), think about it… There have been SEVERAL migrations/Invasions of Scythic-type ppl since 500 B.C. or better into the Middle east/caucasus/India. Indian Punjabi’s themselves, have a significant amount of genes attributed to Afghan invasions. These Afghan genes are directly related to Scythian related ancestors (many, of course, which had European blood) that invaded that area. That is backed by history, and science/DNA.
Kent’s Cavern // June 7, 2009 at 4:55 pm | Reply
I think that term will die hard. The problem is, the whole “Aryan Invasion theory,” (that kick started it) has been wrapped around false origin theory-and rhetoric-for so long, that it’s ingrained in the minds of many. It’s a last resort argument for these Eurocentric (&/or white supremist types) on the losing side of an debate.
The fact is, that even if Aryans did exist as a separate group (at least w/ regard to India), they were of “Mediterranean” (or Middle Eastern) physical type. Saying that “whites” invaded India, would be no different than saying “MEXICANS” fought the Moors in Spain! The fact of the matter is, since their was no Mexica Indian blood (in Spain), Mexicans had nothing to do w/those battles. The same can be said for those Eurocentric Whites out there. Modern Europeans are a mixture of 2 different physical types: Original European (that evolved during the upper Paleolithic in Europe…aka “cro magnon”), and Middle eastern or “Mediterranean” physical types (that initially penetrated Europe-in the neolithic- around 10,000 years ago..at least the balkans/Greece), and populated other areas of Europe in later waves.
If the Cro Magnon element is missing, if a group is PURELY of mediterranean stock, then it cannot be considered “white.” We’ve set those definitions ourselves (I won’t even go into the ridiculousness of trying to classify the whole of the middle east/Europe under a “caucasian” race).
So, in short..Mediterranean/middle eastern types would be “Aryan.” Whites themselves would not be. Also, Mediterraneans would be the ones that built the pyramids (w/ admixture-at times-of sub saharan African blood), built Mohenjodaro & Harrapan (if the Dravidian language group does indeed coincide w/ the mediterranean types in India), built Sumer etc.
Oh,…and to the people who like to throw up the R1a haplotype presence in Europe (and then use that to further their argument that the mythical invasions into India took place), think about it… There have been SEVERAL migrations/Invasions of Scythic-type ppl since 500 B.C. or better into the Middle east/caucasus/India. Indian Punjabi’s themselves, have a significant amount of genes attributed to Afghan invasions. These Afghan genes are directly related to Scythian & Greek related ancestors (many, of course, which had European blood) that invaded that area (& mixed w/other Asian/Mediterranean types). That is backed by history, and science/DNA.
Does it even matter? Your all going to die in the end. LOL
…the truth, yhwh=yahweh=ya ue(N)=
already/ya-ue/big, the meaning being that
god existed before anything, but also that
it, and i say it, because nauatl has no gender,
being a cave goddess language, what other
sex mattered in those days, men arrived
at their flighty sky god, zeus status, much
later, meaning that ya ue(N) was not original with
the hebrew=tepeua(N).
I don’t care who is noble and true Aryan .You know, those people with white features that live in Pakistan or India or Afghanistan they just live there but they are not of their origins. I am from Ukraine and we almost had no others but us and Russians living on our lands and let me tell you this: Those people are of my origin not yours. No offense to any “Real Aryans that are dark and Indian looking” but those kids look like our kids not yours, OK? Pakistani’s and Indians look like our Gypsies looked. Aishwaraya Rai looks like our gypsies and they came to europe from pakistan. So, to those that think that many other dark skinned nations have blonds know this: they have our people there that came long long time ago to those faraway lands. I can see them in me, I don’t have to know this I can almost “smell” my blood in them. The facial features, bone structure, I mean everything. Some of them look like they could have a little mix of natives in them but they are still my people I know it because it is my kind. If you call those Indians or Pakistanis true Aryans and not whites you are so WRONG! They ARE whites end of story. Come on people let go. Don’t be so noble or be so and admit it finally. Don’t seek out those light featured light eyed people among yours and say look these are our true Aryans and they are not whites. Besides it is true that the term Aryan is Indian but the people were not, that is why they don’t even look like Indians. O, and I am not white extremist to those that are troubled with such silly stuff. I don’t give sh…t about it. We had no such stuff over there so I am not use to any form of racism or any of that garbage. Life is to short and precious. Cheers!
YOU get it right…the word “aryan” for the White Supremacist, neonazis and other groups is a synonyms for “White people WITHOUT jewish ancestry”.
Aryan = Non jew person.
If you don’t like this interpretation of the word “Aryan” it’s YOUR problem.
Oh and by the way, thanks for the photo of the 6 boys and girls from Norway, Sweden and Germany…I SAVE IT ON MY PC UNDER THE FILE NAME “ARYANS.JPG”.
THANKS AGAIN!
I like it!
Actually you are incorrect also. ”Aryan” only covers those who speak an Indo-Aryan language (hence Sanskrit *Arya-) and thus it doesn’t include Southern or Eastern Europe only Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, half of India, Sri Lanka etc.
Also, the northern Europeans are very much related to the Aryans of Asia and the Southern and Eastern Europeans. The difference in look comes from a difference in climate.
It must be stated that the Germanic people have the highest degree of mixing with the pre-Indo-Europeans but they are also still genetically related to other Indo-Europeans (which is why geneticall Germans have traits in common with even Indians) and their culture is wholely Indo-European and their ancient religion was verty similar to Vedic Hinduism and other European faiths.
I think your wrong on this point. Aryans came from the steppes and spread out. They looked like the Tokarian mummies.
Kent’s cavern : “they were of “Mediterranean” (or Middle Eastern) physical type”
Not quite. You’re psychic superpowers didn’t help much on this one.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/4462755368m322k8/
…let me amend the etymology of sindhu,
the old sanskrit for, hindu. now that i have
seen dukha used for the people of tzaatan/mazatlan(N), i am convinced
that the name of a people is not ballast,
or a toss/toxaua shower, rather it is,
tocaitl(N)=name, reknown, honor,
reputation, the verb, toca(N)=to sow seed,
so, sin-=tzintli(N/honorific), later,
saintly, and, -dhu=tocaitl/toca(N)=
the saintly name/sowing, makes more
sense, and in a tenuous way connects
hindu/sindhu to the dukha deer culture
people, whose area, the altai mts was
the cultural light bulb in 50k bc that
lit eurasia, magnet for nomads,
ignition for religion, the altar of
man, light of the world, and
the civilizations that follow that light
even now.
…the first horse, umaa(ainu)uma(Jap)mare(E),
was a mazatl/deer, aryans are 50k bc deer
people of the plains, steppes=tepetl(N)=
altepeptl(N)=town, their skygod is the raingod,
tlaloc/rarog, in the tonalamatl book of souls, whose animal is tlaloa(N)=to
flee=talullah, the fleeing deer/mazatl(N)/
matlatl(N)=net, when climate becomes
drier, the deer people switch to sheep=
xipeua(N)=to flay, oveja(sp)=ouica(N)=
with difficulty, danger, and tame the horse=
t/th/hors/chtli(letra)=tochtli(day8souls)=
seed animal(rabbit/ocho/8), and milk the
mazatl mares like they did the fatback
deer they used to ride. the last half of
aryana refers to yani(N)=llano(sp)=
plain/prairie, the first half of the aryana=
ailia(N)=reverential of, ay(N)=to do,
meaning to work for someone else in
a sacred/o(ll)in=holy capacity under
oath=tlatolli(N).
Short comment: It’s just stupid think that the nowdays mixed races form there would have anything to do with the Aryans. Aryans are, in that mystic way which we call someone ‘aryan’ and not ‘caucasian’ or ‘white’, descendants from Ultima Thule, or Hyperborea, all of’em nordcis (white nords and red nords).
…meat and mazeltov, other ma-/mazatl(N)=
deer words that can be added, mayes/berber,
are the scythoid alani, who called themselves,
massagetae, also their dog, mastiff/alaunt,
who by nomenclature began as a deerhound,
hunted lions with the iranians, was trained
to guard the beeve herds of the massagetae
alan, and was their wardog. the mastiff also
appears on the early chess board as name for
the queen, merze(mongolian)=mastiff, but
a close look at the word fits, metztli(N)=
limb, leg, moon, chess being played by
chinese emperor, wu tu, 6c ad, was called
the elephant/image game and included
the sun, moon, stars, constellations.
the queen was also called bers/nohoi(M)
both mongolian words meaning, guard
dog, bers(M)=vers=iueli(N)=powerful, our
old friend from bear worship. with the alan/
massagetae deer people we are getting closer to the origin of the tonalamatl/tonalli/tonatiuh
sun book where dog is the center(10)of the
booksouls, day 11=ozomatli/monkey but
originally=ozo=oso(sp)=bear, the zo is
zoomorphic, e.g., otso(basque)=wolf.
deer=day7. nohoi(Mongol)=nouian(N)=
on all sides, partout(Fr). the kings name=
noyon(M)=lord=nouianyo(N)=universal
(i take it to be the sun symbol). in reference
to both king and queen, nouian ixquich(N)=
squared(cuadrado) alludes to their moving
capability on the chess board. the queen
also bears the name, arslan(M)=lion,
which the merze/mastiff hunts on the
persian palace friezes. the rook is called,
tereg(M)=cart=tetlecotiliztli(N)=draw the
line, game limit, complete rupture with
someone. whether these are original names
for the chess pieces or adapted to the pastoral
life of the mongolians is still in question, but
pieces made of deer horn are being found in
iranian grave sites, and to my mind, a people
who can train mastiffs for different tasks,
are the best warriors of their age, supply
war chariots to the iranians, are blond,
blue-eyed, a neander trait, horsebreeders,
cattle herders who planted rhubarb
along the rha(volga)=tlatla(N)=flame, the first
tea before china was a nation, who are
most successful of the ancient deer tribes,
sunworshippers as they all were, who went
not from deer to sheep, but deer to horse
to cattle=ecatl(day2soul), who were monogamous but held their wives in common,
(now that’s an idea we could use today to
put divorce lawyers and the yellow press
back on the level), used the net/matlatl(N)
in battle almost capturing an armenian king,
then in 9-12th c. ad were forced by the
mongol swell to settle the caucassus from
their previous homeland, the sea of azov=
lake meotis=meyaya otli(N)=the flowing road
where they fished and tailored fresh water
seal for clothing, once in the causassus
they form alania, a christian kingdom.
to my mind they have shown the capability
and mental strength to develop the game
of chess and to have created the tonalamatl.
it’s a close race between them and the
mongolians for this honor. one of the puzzling
things, but perhaps a clue to origin by
negativity, is the complete disappearance of
the tonalamatl in the eurasian area, only
later to surface in the new world, something
that can only be attributed to the fortunes
of war, the destroyer of cultural systems
finer than itself.
…the scyth aryans, the alani, are neander cross,
alphas out of deer culture as well, directly from
deer to horse, cattle, mastiff, breeders, blond,
green-eyed or blue, red-head too, sure sign of
the previous heroic species, not chronus but
the son, zeus, aryan skygod and author of first
internecine holocaust, driving the youngest
titan, father chronus, as in, titan(gk) titlani(N)=
messenger of the fallen angel promethean race
of neander, over the aryan bridge of zeus, first
known to the greeks as snake, the skygod who
comes out of the new goddess and venus,
the shuttle star hecate, whose weavers are
populating the danube, beginning
to weave fiber/wool after the tree innerbark
worship of the rope age, zeus is the rise of male
gods, their frivolity, airiness, and inhuman
selfishness by excluding the original female
principle and goddesses in favor of their
stupid wars, and tribes/tribu(sp)=tepulli(N)=
the male member or staff, phallic and laughable
missile ewes call the mutton daggar, elevated
way beyond it’s importance in the suffering
world today, victim of its comic and
improbable orgys of power so flaccid even
the gods roar in laughter, while their women
hide their (s)knickers in their sleeves.
“Also, the northern Europeans are very much related to the Aryans of Asia and the Southern and Eastern Europeans. The difference in look comes from a difference in climate.”
This statement is insane.
FFO man, this is the best blogs I have seen. Please, more!
Iranian legends as old as Gathas clearely state that their ancestors came from the north – as they were horse riding cattle herding society they could have moved through the vast open spaces of Central Asia pretty fast and easily. Tochars were also cattle herding people of similar ancestry and as the Tarim mummies show they were caucasians often blond. The idea is that Aryans fair-complexed fair-haired and very often blue eyed (perhaps it was a very common feauture). That prescribes to the idea of the Ukraine Urheimat of these people – and other early Indoeuropeans – they must have been racial Indoeuropeans for a time – then there were mostly linguistic Indoeuropeans
blue-eyed fair-haired does not go well with the Anatolian craddle of Indoeuropeans or at least Aryans in my view – not much of these features around these days there
Discussions would be easier if you stuck to established facts, evidence and results of genetic studies.
No matter how “White” certain ethnic groups are in the north of Pakistan or Afghanistan, the people there are genetically mostly of Indian origin according to their SNPs.
The Tocharians are not that old in history so their supposed appearance, I am not good at putting life like flesh and bone on desiccated corpses, their remains being in Western China is not significant. We know about the Tocharians because of the advent of writing which is a recent human invention. Now had Caucasoid remains been found in Western China in the Paleolithic then you would have something important to say. In Japan there were Ainus who had a European appearance i.e light skin, hirsuteness, round eyes but genetic studies show them to be closely related to Siberians and other NE Asians.
Light skin tones, non brown eye colors, and non black hair appeared very recently. No more than 10 Kya, about the time that humans started taking advantage of the climatic changes of the Holocene and colonised previously frozen waste lands, and invented farming. You cannot extrapolate being Caucasian or White with light pigmentation, as Caucasians or Caucasoids existed many millennia before the first woman got blue eyes or pink skin and became sexually alluring to darker Caucasoid men.
The Cro Magnons and other earlier AMH Europeans did not completely look like White people. Cro Magnons had an Amerindian appearance with high cheekbones and slanted eyes. They were most probably dark brown skinned and their skeletal structure had more in common with elongated tropical Africans.
It is very childish to ignore the research or theories of the many physical Anthropologists and today’s geneticists when making silly statements about race. The Caucasian race or sub race of humanity has nothing to do with having blue eyes or pink skin. Ignorance is no excuse.
By all accounts the Aryans were the people who claimed to invade Persia and India and subject the previous inhabitants with their language and culture. It is their you have to find the appearance of the true Aryan, if there was one in the first place. Just because Indians are dark skinned and hardly have blue eyes does not mean they are not true descendants of the mythohistorical Aryans. What ancient books do Europeans have that claim their ancestors invaded Europe and subjugated the original inhabitants and changed their languages or culture? There are none. Just a lot of vague theories about the Basques, Iberians, Etruscans and Picts but nothing solid.
Light skin tones, non brown eye colors, and non black hair appeared very recently
That’ debatable, as some east asian groups seem to have fair brown hari, hazel and grey eyes, and teh estimated dates for red and fair/brown hair predate the split with Asians and the colonisation of Europe. Blue eyes are recent, but other eye cols haven’t been looked at that closely
Due to the ancient trade routes running through this region, the fact that many disparate peoples used the routes or lived along them, that European whites have been since prehistory and up to this very day, the most popular commodity as slaves, the presence of blondes, redheads and European “tribal” dna in those region cannot be such a surprise, nor can the look of the people in those region be relied upon as an example for three, two, or even one thousand years ago.
Though many theories of racial origin are proposed, the history of genetic dispersion due to such a long history of slave trading of Europeans to the south and east must be taken into consideration. Even the present King of Jordan has an English wife. Blonde, white European females remain the trophy object for many world cultures, if not all of them.
I suggest the curious review the history of slavery, beginning with Herodotus, the oldest historical record in the world.
But we also know that Celtic and Germanic tribes moved through North Africa several times in later recorded history, and as late as the late Roman empire and some settled and were assimilated. The Normans conquered Sicily and part of Southern Italy and held it for quite a while until they were absorbed into the local populations.
It’s difficult to use dna to make claims of prehistoric location and movements, without supporting archeology, etc. The increased movements of people worldwide is effectively closing the window on the period where modern dna samples will be useful in any analysis.
So using present day photos to provide some sort of proof of origin in those regions is not conclusive in any way.
Marcus, DNA studies show European female contributions to the near east and for most of north Africa are miniscule.
We have 12,000 year old DNA from North Africa that shows up a lot of Iberian maternal DNA from a very long time ago, but it’s not common outside of Morocco..
I agree with the article. I just start to laugh when I hear white supremacists claim that they are Aryan. There are no Aryans in Europe. I hate how these people stole our name, and are defaming it.
Persians are Aryans, and they spread to central Asia and India. Please if you are a white supremacist, and you are reading this, realize that to me you appear very inferior and unproud of your true racial identity. YOU ARE NOT ARYAN. IT IS A SANSKRIT WORD, SANKRIT IS FROM ASIA< NOT EUROPE. THERE ARE NO RACIAL RELATIONS BETWEEN PERSIANS AND EUROPEANS!!! GET IT IN YOUR HEAD< AND STOP USING OUR NAME!!
I also find it entertaining reading the comments by white supremacists. You are sooo inferior. Get your own race!! YOU ARE NOT ARYAN. SAY THAT 50 times to yourself.
Aryan means noble blood in Sanskrit which is a language originating from Iran. There is no genetic relations between us Persians and you Europeans, fortunately!!!!The more you use it, the more laughable you are.
It’s true that the Aryan term is often used correctly but so is the term “white supremacist”. Most people who are described as white supremacist are white separatists and not supremacists. Also many people who are labeled as supremacist don’t mind other races but oppose the massive amounts of immigrations. Those would be immigration reformers.
Most people who are described as white supremacist are white separatists and not supremacists.
True.
True “Aryans” are peoples from India only. All others are Aryan-wannabees.
Click to access Bamshad_2001a.pdf
Sorry, they came from the North.
Aryan = good shaped head, smart, strong facial features, healthy + strong, blonde hair Caucasian. As am I as I was taught and will remain of the chosen few. Thanks
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Aryan isnt a race whatsoever – just some stupid thing that the Nazis fell in love with and made it synonymous with the Nordic race.
Arya means ‘noble’ in Indic-Farsi-Pashto.
It’s jus that Orientalids/Arabids and Armenoids, Europeans and Indids/Irano-Afghans share their ancestry via the West Eurasian ydnas and mtdnas.
also Europeans braved the Ice age while Indid R1a’s retreated into a more fertile land and merged with J2 Ydna farmers.
Indian, Pakistan, Persian, etc … Indo-European tribes are not Aryans in the MTDNA they just have some Aryan admixture from the Aryan invasion and conquest in the male Y-DNA.
Real Aryans ? People who lives around Caucasian and Persia(Iranians,kurds,ukranians,armanians,greeks etc.) We are the most beatifull people of dark and blonde we have clean skin….
…arya would mean noble as it’s root, ailia(N)=
work for someone else, ally, is the reverential
of to do, ay(N), the 2d component, ana(N)=to
spread, grow. this probably refers to the loose
confederation of tribes and the loyaltys and
rivalrys theirein, still visible in iraq, iran,
afghanistan(the mideast). so, increasing allies.
given the meaning of aryana/aryan in this case
it is foolish to expect the word to produce ethnicity, true it is a surge word, a recruiting
phrase, just what arab pr would order, a call
to the cause, a call to tribes.
Many ethnic groups carry some Aryan legacy. Aryans mixes in India with Dravid an other population and in Britain with other Paleoeuropeans. It looks very plausible that R1a Y chromosome happlogroup is the best marker of Aryan descend. It’s higest proportion (about 40%) is found among Russias, Ukrainians, Polish, Latvians, Lithuanians, and Kyrgiz. It’s quite high (about 30%) among North Indians, Norvegians, East Germans, Estonians, Finnish speaking populations of Russia. The British, Greeks, Iranians have on 10% of this. This could be explained with the fact that these lands were dencely populate when Aryan invaders came from South Russian steppe. So people changed language without changing genes, as it happened many times in history.
Those pictures are MODERN indo-europeans. How does anyone know what people in Turkmenistan looked like in the bronze age??
Only Indians are Aryans. It is our word and first used by Indo Europeans after they created the Vedic civilisation near the Indus river 5000 years ago to describe themselves as a noble people. Only 1000 years later Persians used (copied) the word.
The word Arya is first mentioned in the ancient Indian texts.
Tzopilotzol(or whatever your name is), incoherent ramblings will not earn you any ground.
Iyengar -> “also Europeans braved the Ice age while Indid R1a’s retreated into a more fertile land and merged with J2 Ydna farmers.”
That’s why there are a lot of Y-DNA R1a1 up to Iceland, right ?
That’s why there were several R1a1 in the corded ware remains in Germany, 4,600 years ago ?
That’s why the R1a1 population of south siberia is at least 60 % light hair and blue or green eyes overall, with mostly west eurasian mtDNA haplogroups, in bronze age, in a recent study ?
This one : http://www.springerlink.com/content/4462755368m322k8/
…p(l)ooper,
your judgement is
like free advice,
worth exactly what one pays for it.
on the other hand,
having a closed mind
is worse than a closed book or
a flashlight
without pilas. whatever eminence
or pulpit you think
you are speaking
from, as usual in
these cases of
intellectual distress and
fussiness, has yet
to be revealed.
i am not interested in the ground.
…as a token of my sincerety if not accuracy, herewith two linguistic formulas with the same result:
cepan(OE)=cepan(Nauatl), cancel the
cepan=keep, and
presto, old english=
Nauatl.
2. potian(OE)=
potia(Nauatl).
put(E).
…more for plupper, it’s tzo-pilotl=z/sod pilot.
go to tzopilotl wordpress, check out the gained
ground of these posts(there are 77 of them on
various topics, but let me earmark the ones
of interest to you: proto-zuang-tai likes omotic,
zhuang 3, proto-zhuang/nauatl, zhuang/nauatl,
omotic, and as pilón:1) okhotsk- pez(sp)-ocotzoaltia(N), 2)ma)tzaat(l)an(N/mongol.
…when the turks abandoned their homeland
the altai, assisted by the horse=at(Turk)=
atl(N)=altia(N)=altar(annoint), and,
altin(Turk)=gold=altia(mts), is probably when
the indo-euro mixture began. the basques also
have altzairu(vasco)=steel(iron?), referring
to the altai/altia(N)=washed mountains.
the language record has most of these answers,
used with haplo mtDNA or simple shovel arq,
one no longer is working with one hand, foot,
or wing(going round in circles), but with two.
once the nomad tlaloc/raingod deer culture
winds down with climate change, the aryan
horse/cattle/dog tribes arise, in fact one could
define aryan by, former deer tribes who switched to horse/beeves.
Indians are the only “aryans”. Haplogroup R has the most diversity in India. Whites if anything are “mutant” Indians that left India via the NW thousands of years ago.
A question in the same vein as this thread. What is the story behind the term “Caucasian?” From my understanding it is a mountain range near turkey somwhere. How did it come to be associated with “White People?” Is it kind of the same story as the term Aryan?
Sorry if this is a bit simplistic. I have no anthropological or linguistic training or background. Just curiosity.
The Northern Europeans are a mixture of Cro-magnon, later steppe peoples such as Scythians, also Aryans, et al. The Germanic skull is generally broader and somewhat flatter, not as gracile as the Aryan skull, which looks like it evolved from the Semitic or some other ME skull. I am suspicious that Cro-Magnon types came from the West, mixed with some ME types and that is where the Aryan type came from.
Europe is mostly R1B in the West, and lesser populations of I in Scandinavia and R1A in the East. I thought R1B split off from R1 30kya, and later waited out the last ice age in the Iberian Peninsula, before repopulating Europe.
Gay will never again simply mean “happy,” and “Aryan” will never again mean “ancient Indo-European invaders of India”. Useage and word meaning are popularity contests, and the meanings of words change.
Might I suggest “Vedic” or “Kurgan” as alternatives that have not been appropriated?
Herodotus mentions that Persians called themselves aryans.
They were farmers and iron smiths, used to dress in black leather.
They took the power in Mydian empire after advising the Delphi oracle.
says nothing about Indians :p
As recently as 5,300 years ago, the phylogeography of Europe was apparently quite different than at present. At least one ACTUAL SPECIMEN from that time bears indicative genetic markers of this observation. See: http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(08)01254-2
Humans (Cro-Magnons), were wanderers from very early days. Thus, there are no ‘pure’ races, unless I suppose you and all your ancestors are from the Rift Valley at Afar, Ethiopia. Maybe you hail from the Javanese Homo floresiensis? Or perhaps the inbreeding in your family is actually a point of pride, in which case your braggadocio is laughable.
Interesting that we call civilization “sedentary.”
We’ve been migrating a long time, to wit:
“mtDNA Analysis Reveals a Major Late Paleolithic Population Expansion from Southwestern to Northeastern Europe,”
The American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 62, Issue 5, 1 May 1998, Pages 1137-1152
Antonio Torroni, Hans-Jürgen Bandelt, Leila D’Urbano, Päivi Lahermo, Pedro Moral, Daniele Sellitto, Chiara Rengo, Peter Forster, Marja-Liisa Savontaus, Batsheva Bonné-Tamir and Rosaria Scozzari
Abstract
Summary
mtDNA sequence variation was studied in 419 individuals from nine Eurasian populations, by high-resolution RFLP analysis, and it was followed by sequencing of the control region of a subset of these mtDNAs and a detailed survey of previously published data from numerous other European populations. This analysis revealed that a major Paleolithic population expansion from the Atlantic zone (southwestern Europe) occurred 10,00015,000 years ago, after the Last Glacial Maximum. As an mtDNA marker for this expansion we identified haplogroup V, an autochthonous European haplogroup, which most likely originated in the northern Iberian peninsula or southwestern France at about the time of the Younger Dryas. Its sister haplogroup, H, which is distributed throughout the entire range of Caucasoid populations and which originated in the Near East 25,00030,000 years ago, also took part in this expansion, thus rendering it by far the most frequent (40%60%) haplogroup in western Europe. Subsequent migrations after the Younger Dryas eventually carried those Atlantic mtDNAs into central and northern Europe. This scenario, already implied by archaeological records, is given overwhelming support from both the distribution of the autochthonous European Y chromosome type 15, as detected by the probes 49a/f, and the synthetic maps of nuclear data.
http://www.cell.com/AJHG/abstract/S0002-9297(07)61537-7
Now this is an interesting “bump-in.”
I am sitting here doing my Art course work and I must SAY…THE PERSON WHO WROTE THIS ARTICLE IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!
The Aryan people were NOT White at all. I am looking at their artwork RIGHT NOW and NONE of these people are White. None of the art is Caucasian.
To the person who said the White (chuckle) “supremacist” were referring to anything that is not Jewish… Then I guess that could be Black folks too! lol!
Simply, they perhaps need to find something else to cling to. No scholar has to lie about this. It would be a waste of time.
lot people crazy whites just argue all day to aryan
whites race insane your anot aryan or cry like woman becuase early whites 1900 century dont
what aryan mean so also livingston is quy who call aryan is white people not all the people
are white like spian or even greek truk hungry
they mix and indian are indian so iran is not they rules one time whites like turkish used slave balkins people they took white ladys blue eyes
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in not such blonde people or dark blonde people.also at iran due to weather effect u can find light brown eyes with brown or black hair.even at germany u can find black hair boys and girls
I am mostly a non Aryan European, but I do have some Italian Russian and polish ancestry. Is that south eastern enough for you?!?!?
Back in WWII hitler was friendly to Arabs, Persians etc.
According to my own experience, I think that in the USA people confuse “race” with “ethnicity” and with “skin color” and language.
I was born and I live in Argentina, my hair is reddish blonde and I have blue eyes.
My grand parents were Irish (There are many people of Irish descend in Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and in other South American countries). Anybody born in Argentina independently of her/his ancestry is an argentinean.
I took a course in the USA, and I never imagined that my color and my South American spanish accent will confuse my (US)american classmate and even my teachers.
I was told that cannot be possible that I was an argentinean, with Irish blood, therefore, or I was “trying to pass for white” or I was not an argentinean.
I was told that I should choose between being “of Irish ancestry” or being “Latina”, because, I cannot be both.
I was, also, told that only English speaking countries received emigration from non-Spanish European countries.
When I returned home and I told my argentineans friends about my experiences, I was told “no wonder why we have lousy relations with USA, they just don’t know us.
Lol white supremasists are so ignorant.
And look at how much more beautiful the true aryans are than the fake aryans!
aryan means noble in india.