Late Pleistocene -early Holocene Mahgreb.
Just a link I’m storing to a reasonably thorough description of North Africa from about 20,000 years ago to about 7,000 BC. It’s for my own reference really.
The population of the Sahara at this time were ‘Mechtoid’ who were mostly similar to European ‘Cro Magnons’, and were probably mostly mt DNA haplotype U, and Y chromosome R1b. I can’t speculate as to thier external appearance, but they represent a back migration into Africa from Eurasia, dated to about 30,000 years by DNA studies.
Mathilda's Anthropology Blog. 
Nice paper.Thanks.
The population of the Sahara at this time were ‘Mechtoid’ who were mostly similar to European ‘Cro Magnons’, and were probably mostly mt DNA haplotype U, and Y chromosome R1b. I can’t speculate as to thier external appearance, but they represent a back migration into Africa from Eurasia, dated to about 30,000 years by DNA studies.
I would argue for an specifically Iberian origin of the Oranian (Iberomaurusian), mostly based on haplogroup U6, which has greatest diversity in the Iberian peninsula. Maca-Meyer argues for an Eastern African/West Asian origin of the clade but she has to admit that the divesity is much greater in Iberia (and second in Morocco), basing her reasoning only on U6a, which in my opinion rather represents a back-migration with Capsian culture.
IMO, U6 is probably an Aurignacian (Gravettian??)founder effect in southern Iberia, that must have spread to Africa from there (Oranian is often though as of Iberian origin). I would even argue that Oranian was involved in the migration of R1b and U6 to the Nile (from where R1b would jump to Northern Cameroon eventually) being partly related to Capsian origins.
Capsians would have brought to NW Africa Y-DNA E-M215 (E1b1, former E3b) and mtDNA U6a, as well as varied L lineages. In this sense it does appear that Capsian is something else than an Oranian derivation but I would not exclude some Oranian-related influx, particularly because of the apparent back-migration of U6a but also because of the presence of European-like mural art in Upper Egypt.
Hi I FOUND A STUDY THAT ACTUALLY PROVES WHAT A HAVE STATED EARLIER THAT WHITE BERBERS ARE DESCENDANTS OF WHITE SLAVES!! BECAUSE HOW COULD YOU EXPLAIN THE FACT THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL STUDIES ABOUT SOUTERN BERBERS IN MOROCCO AND THAT SOME ONLY SHOW A MINOR SUBSAHARIAN DNA SOME UP TO 20% OTHERS JUST 2% or less???? HERE IS TE PROOF:
Sub-Saharan African Paternal Admxiture in Caucasoids
Two recent papers [1, 2] are a first step to detecting Sub-Saharan African admixture in living Caucasoids.
According to [1] E-P2*, E-M2 and E-M33 are restricted to Sub-Saharan Africans and appear rarely elsewhere. According to [2], E(xE3b) is also restricted to Sub-Saharan Africans. The combined frequency of these haplogroups are (if more than one samples are available, they are both given):
12.7% Berber (north-central Morocco)
10.3% Palestinians
10% Mozabite Berbers
7.3% United Arab Emirates
6.8/1.3/0% in Arab (Morocco)
6.8% Saharawish (North Africa)
6.3% in Berber (Morocco)
5.8% Moyen Atlas Berbers
4.3% Turkish Cypriots
4% Northern Portuguese
3.6% Bedouins
3.4% Tunisian
3.4% Marrakesh Berbers
2.9% Albanians (Calabria, Italy)
2.9/0% Turks (Istanbul)
2.5% Berber (southern Morocco)!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2% Southern Portuguese
1.6% Sardinians
1.3% Italian (Calabria)
0.9% Iraqi
0.6% Pakistani
Of course these numbers should be interpreted as evidence of existence of sub-Saharan admixture, not as a necessarily accurate quantification of its precise extent, which is however likely to be low in most populations.
[1] 000540.html
[2] 000531.html
http://dienekes.50webs.com/blog/archives/000541.html
SO TELL ME HOW IS IT THAT SOUTERN MOROCCAN BERBERS HAVE SO LESS SAHARIAN DNA IN THEM WHEN ALL NORTH AFRICAN SOUTERN REGIONS ALL HAVE BLACK BERBERS LIVING IN EVEN SOUTH MOROCCO?? THE REASON IS THE IMPORT OF WHITE SLAVES!!!
WHAT DO U EUROCENTRIST GOT TO SAY NOW HE?? THIS IS ACTUALLY PROOF THAT THEY ARE DESCENDANTS OF WHITE SLAVES!!!
Thank you Nubian, I needed a laugh.
You do realise you made absolutely no sense? You might want to try polishing up your English.
North Africans with North African specific DNA (u6, E3b1b) are Caucasians, get over your inanity. They’ve been there about 30,000 years, with a refresher wave of Near Eastern Caucasoids arriving about 8,000 years ago (Capsians).
That study doesn’t prove anything at all, I’m not even sure what you think it means. It’s discussing how much sub Saharan Y DNA they can trace in these groups. How this reads as ‘it shows that North Africans were originally black’ to you I’m not sure. What it does say is that most Berbers are not black Africans. Most of them have the E3b1b Y chromosome, and are mostly Caucasian.
You a madder than a hatter. You do know that? Right?
Also, the Mechtoid skulls (20,000 yeqrs old) and capsian skulls from North Africa are caucasoid.
“I would argue for an specifically Iberian origin of the Oranian (Iberomaurusian), mostly based on haplogroup U6, which has greatest diversity in the Iberian peninsula. Maca-Meyer argues for an Eastern African/West Asian origin of the clade but she has to admit that the divesity is much greater in Iberia (and second in Morocco), basing her reasoning only on U6a, which in my opinion rather represents a back-migration with Capsian culture. ”
I disagree. The RB1 was probably Ibero-Maurusian, but the U6 seems to have come with the M1 30,000 years ago. Only the Basques have the U6b with the high diversity, and they don’t have U6b1, U6a, and U6c.
Cro-Magnons had barely made it into Iberia 30,000 ybop, and it was still domain of the Neanderthals. The Auragnacion and Gravettian never get farther south than the Franco-Columbian region, and until at least 24,500 you have Neanderthals still living in Gibralter and neanderthal hybrids living in Northern Portugal.
The Basques first get North African genes around20,000 years ago. They had to have gotten the U6b by stealing women in mass from North Africa.
Either the Basques were getting their U6 women from the Ibero-Maurusians in trade, or they sailed out to get them themselves.
Also, the Ibero-Maurusians seem alot like neanderthal hybrids to me.
I am wondering if they represent the R1* or the R1b in North Africa.
@J.lyon Layden :
Yes there is R1b in Northern Africa , more precisely in Algeria at 10%.
A sudy on a western Algeria’s Arabic speaking group showed 28 % J1 and 50% E1b1b and 10% R1b.
Another study of an eastern Algeria’s Berber speaking group showed 15% J , 15% R1b and 60% E1b1b.
Algeria is likely to be 50% E1b1b , 35% J and something like 10% R1b. I don’t know of what kind of R1b it is , it maybe comes from ancient times (Ibero-Maurisian) or Moor refugees of 1492.
I know that R1b is a typical Spanish Haplogroup , so its likely to be connected to Iberians. E1b1b1b is typical of the Berber populations , and J is moslty of Near-Easterner origins.
know that R1b is a typical Spanish Haplogroup
Actually a lot of it arrived in the Neolthic from the near East, as King Tut appears to be R1b, and R1b is found a lot in the Sudan and Cameroon.