My blog is… research and scrapbooking. Mostly it’s a folder for articles and links because it’s easier than keeping it on paper. Keeping a blog is very educational, and a good way of keeping track of your studying. You have to think about what you post, and it makes you understand it better, Some of my older posts from last year are embarrassing now though, and have been removed as I get more familiar with my subject.
I think… the ‘out of Africa’ theory of human evolution is somewhat inaccurate, even though the media seem to be all for it. It’s not amazingly popular among anthropologists and geneticists (see blog for papers on that) although it’s repeatedly printed as the proven truth. I’ve got multiple DNA and anthropological studies that don’t support it.
(I’m officially in smug moder since the revelation that we do seem to have neanderthal ancestry in modern humans)
I also think that racial differences are a long way from being cosmetic, and there’s no evolutionary reason for us to be the homogeneous species that a lot of people claim we are- it would mean evolution stopped the day modern humans evolved, which is just anti-logic. There’s biological evidence to the contrary, like different gestation spans, twinning rates etc, and more recent genetics publications that have outright backed race as valid. Which will instantly label me as a racist in many peoples eyes, which is probably why a lot of publishing Phds don’t comment publicly on race (one admitted as much to me). Anyone reading this, the majority of forensic anthropologists take the ‘race is real’ POV, and so do biologists. Anyone who spends a lot of time reading the kinds of papers I will note classic racial terminology is very much alive and in use. The rest take a ‘clinal variation stance (each to their own) but very few maintian ‘we are all the same’.
Personally… I’m currently an anthropology student, now my youngest has started school. Hence the lighter blogging schedule these days. I’ve been blogging nearly two years now.
Afrocentrism… Anyone who takes a look at the ancient Egypt entries will note a slew of outraged comments from Afrocentrists who deem showing close ups of mummy hair and every available tomb portrait of ancient Egyptians to be racist. They can bite me. It’s not my fault the majority don’t look black. Unfortunately one of my main interests is ancient North Africa and the near East, so I tend to cross paths with them rather often. Hence the irritation you’ll see seeping through in the replies to them. I’ve reached the point where I actually enjoy irritating them now, which is probably a bit childish but not unprovoked.
I’m an INTJ personality type down to the ground. A bit like Dr Greg House, but not as miserable or stoned.
If anyone sees something here they have a copyright to, please contact me if they don’t want it posted here. I don’t make any profit from this site and it’s meant to be educational, but if the images or text are yours I will remove them without arguing. If you are generous enough to allow me to use the images, I’ll give proper accreditation ASAP upon notification.
I was wondering if you could answer 3 (hopefully simple) questions for me, or at least direct me to where I might find the answer. I am a high school student in Scranton, PA working on a research project and came across your blog.
1. When did “humans” or humanids start living together in communities? (2 million years ago?)
2. How did our ancestors live prior to forming communities? (Were they nomads that lived alone?)
3. Is there any research that studies the evolution of trust? In other words, when “humans” started living together, how did they know they could trust one another and that they would be safe?
Thanks for your help,
1. as Mathilda said animals have been living in communities prior to the evolution of mammals considering the vast majority of complex life live in communities it is safe to assume communal living occurred first.
3. you would be better off asking an evolutionary psychologist. But, trust is to do with predictable patterns so I have a feeling it would be associated to problem solving and probably evolved before problem solving.
We’ve been living in groups since before we were human, and probably before we were walking upright, as most monkeys live in extended family groups. I think that it’s probably impossible to stick a date on when we became ‘community’ animals.
You’d be much better off looking into studies of primate behaviour to understand the evolution of this kind of behaviour. I’m really more into the point that we started building cites and writing.
Sorry I couldn’t be more help.
Since many years I read about an early peopling Americas – ice age people, the Solutrean crossed the ice bridge 17.000 years ago – this is profed true. They were seal hunters at the French Atlantic coast and they founded a colony at the eastcoast Americas. But we have still no idea, which way took the early negroid people to South America. Probably along the Westcoast Americas to the south. But negrid people are not prepared for cold conditions like we had during the ice age at Beringia. So I can imagine well, they crossed the nothern Pacific by boat – these negrid-melanesian people (Aborigines related) used watercrafts 70.000 years ago. And during the last ice age much more islands existed – maybe they jumped from island to island and arrived in South America. But to found a new colony – this is much harder – need a minimum of 20 people, this is necessary to become a tribe. The South American data has a lot of questions. I tried to get in contact to Dr, Walter Neves – it was impossible. But I asked Dr. Bradley and Dr. Adovasio and they sent some good informations to my adress. I have to read your website exactly – I found it right now and it is deep in the night. Peter fróm Vienna
On your article about what is so wrong with Afrocentrism, you talked about 2 genes that causes light skin in Asians. Could you please send me any journal links you have on this.
Also I always thought caucasoid cranialfacial morphology evolved in Europe or Eurasia, the afrocentrists claim thatthose traits could have evolve in Africa therefore I often request any fossil data of caucasoid type skulls in Africa prior to the upper paleolithic migation of Eurasians into Africa,if those traits evolved in Africa should they not be able to provide it? If not doesn´t that make their claims invalid? If you have any journal links with information on any of this please send them to me.
AARGH, can’t remember, it was a few months ago….
Off hand, all I can remember is that the East Asians have a seperate mutation for pale skin. I’m pretty sure I saw it on Razib’s blog. Even without non African mutations, Southern Africans get to the same kind of skin colour as Tunisians, so pure Africans get lightish (golden ‘cafe au lait’) skin.
The standard Caucasoid skull shape DID evolve in Eurasia, but the oldest classically caucasoid skull is only about 30k old (Czech). Mind you, the oldest classically Negroid skull is only about 13,500 years old (Sudan).
The further back the more alike they are, there’s not a vast amount of difference between a 40k old European skull and a 40k old African one. It seems the selective sweeps in the Neolithic really gave us our defintion as racial groups.
The paleolithic skulls you find in Africa have some Caucasoid traits, some Australoid, some Negroid, some Mongoloid. None are ‘Caucasian’ though.
The ‘all these things evolved in Africa’ is a hilarious attempt to explain away why there is Caucasian hair, skulls and teeth, and paintings with light skin in ancient Egypt.
I’ve even seen several Afrocentrists swear blind that blue eyes originated in Africa. LOL. Most of them aren’t that familiar with the DNA studies etc.
They make a lot of bullshit claims.
Please contact us regarding the usage of image, of which we own the copyright, that appears on your blog.
I am a kabyle Berber[Amazigh], I am of pure Kabyle stock, and do not have any sub-saharan DNA. Where do you get this nonsense that Berbers have 25% sub-saharan DNA, I have had my DNA tested and I am E3b2 now known as E3b1b.And my mitochondrial DNA has no trace of
sub-saharan DNA. Not all Berbers have mixed with sub-saharans, I think that you will find that the Kabyle and the Riff Berbers and many more Tribes are of pure Berber stock.For your information my mother had urburn coloured hair and my father was blond.I, myself have black hair, my brother has brown, my sister blond and she has bright blue eyes like my mother.
You have no idea how many arguments I have over this subject. And that 25% is maternal only, the overall total is a bit less.
‘Berber’ covers a lot of ground, Uraeus. It includes the Tuareg and they are mostly black. The Kabyle and Northern Moroccans have very little sub Saharan ancestry in them. But if you add up all the berbers (including those in Northern Mali) that’s the average you get.
You know, I keep telling black Americans that Moroccan Berbers get insulted if you call them black, but they never believe me. Well, here’s the proof.
I’m pretty much new to this field but I am increasingly fascinated by human origins. I was interested in your comments about the non homogeneity of ‘our’ ancestry – how do you picture the evolution of different racial groups in this regard and does this shape your views on the Out of Africa scenario?
I am also rather bamboozled by the so called ooparts ‘evidence’ that suggests much more sophisticated cultures before the commony acceped dawn of civilisation in the Middle East – has the scientific establishment ignored or tried to rationalise away these artifacts do you think? I am talking about hunks of seemingly machined metal work found in coal seams or less controversially 15,000 yr old cave paintings depicting people in sophisticated clothing and footwear – like the Lussac portraits.
I look forward to your reply and to further correspondence with you. Wonderful blog by the way!
I came to your blog from 100 Swallows, and really am impressed! I’d like to sign up for your RSS feed, but i see you don’t have one in the margin. If you could go to your widget page and move an RSS feed or Meta button into the sidebar, people (like me) could sign up for your blog.
By the way, I’m married to a Berber and live in Morocco, so I’ve found a number of really interesting things on your site.
Writing, Painting, Music, and Wine
The tuareg are not actually Berbers,they are more closely related to the Beja people of the Sudan, from which they broke away some 5,000 thousand years ago or so, as their DNA proves, yes they do speak a Berber dialect, after entering the Berber territories they came under the tutelage of the Berbers thus speaking a Berber dialect. They are also not black, the black ones are called Haratin, and are the descendants of the Tuareg slaves; who now live like the Tuareg.
You wouldn’t believe how often I hear Tuaregs being touted as ‘the only real Berbers’ by black Americans…
They have some Berber specific DNA in them, just not much.
Unfortunately this blog doesn’t have an message facility, just comments.
I’m also not keen on advertising my email address due to the large amount of hate mail I receive. Sorry.
Since the phrase “Bite Me” is my favorite reply to insults…I like you already. 🙂
What do you think about the DNA evidence that the National Geographic Genome project has that shows all blood types go back or originate in Africa?
I have no ‘racial’ motives here…just wandering.
Blood types yes, you see the same groups in other primates. But all DNA in modern humans doesn’t seem to match up to a recent African origin though. I’ve got quite a few DNA studies on here that show very ancient genes in Eurasians you don’t find in Africans, so the ‘single origin’ has some major flaws in it.
My stance is called ‘weak Eden’ technically.
I had heard a few months ago that the single origin was proven…is that just someone (NatGeo & IBM)hoping that their favorite theory is right?
Is the ‘other’ human origin from the Middle East or Asia or a multiple coming out of Africa of separate bloodlines at vastly different ages?
I hope I am not asking dumb questions. I am new at this, but very interested.
I realize you are a professional at this and I am trying to learn as much as I can as quickly as I can…If I’m bothering you too much …let me know.
No, it’s not been proved. NG has a tendencey to hammer home the ooa theory and ignore the evidence against it. Same with the origin of native Americas, there’s a great deal of evidence showing the Americas were populated abotu 50k ago, but you’ll still see them push the 15k entry date as gospel.
They essentialy decided to ignore a range of DNA studies (that I’ve got plenty of posted) that showed there was very ancient DNA in Europeans and Asian you don’t find in Africans, and that about three multiple loci studies found that you absolutely had to have archaic admixture to explain our genome.
One study shows a triple exit – it’s called ‘out of Africa again and again’. Lets just say the OOA doesn’t have the common support people think it does.
You are very kind…thank you muchly. 🙂
I linked to you by the way, if thats a problem let me know.
Cool blog! I’m not an anthropologist by any means, but am taking a very basic course in African geography, and have noticed the predominant theme that “we all came from Africa.” Like I said, sooo not an anthropology expert, but it seemed a little odd to me. Good to read another point of view!
Oh, I understand your point of view a bit more now. I disagree about the origin of the human species though. But that’s alright. We (Humans)don’t know everything … yet. My take on it is that we all devrived from a ancient homo sapiens sapiens race similar to today’s “Bushman” of South Africa, by migreting out of Africa with different waves of humans each already differenting somewhat genetically. And this is confusing as to what you said about Asians and Europeans having some ancient genes not found in Africans. Genetically East Asians and Eurasians are very distant groups. Eurasians are more related to some African sub-races genetically then to East Asians. It is rumored that West Asians and Eurasians hold some Neanderthal genes, though I do not know how true that is. And some genes in present-day Middle-Easterners differ from any other groups genetically. Humans, in my opinion are a very special groups b/c we have so many phenotype differences, yet we all have something to contribute to the whole. 🙂 🙂 🙂
I think that there are certain lines we draw and both Eurocentrics and Afrocentrics crudely cross them. I do partially disagree with you about Afrocentrics though. They do make certains claims that others need to take notice of(Possibility others existed within America). There were Negroid bones found in North America, and South America, including 25 in Brazil. Not all they say can be explained away. (I do think the Olmecs were a result of Australoid and Mongoloid admixture and may have traded with West Africans b/c their languages are congurent to that of certain West African parts)Afrocentrics are overreacting due to not knowing their own histroy fully, cobating modern racism in certain feilds, and SEVERE distrust of others. I would say Eurocentric websites are def. more dangerous and some are some, if not most, are tied to “white power terrorist groups”. I’ve been on a number of their sites and it was unpleasent to say the least.
But all in all your blog is one of the most informative I’ve seen. Others seem to post mostly false information. Thanks for the info.
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Great web-site you’re doing. Very good that you have demasked the futile OoA-theory, that some american ego’s created out of some flng monkey-skulls from the rift valley…
Please have a look at my civilized website – http://www.kajaneborg.com – for a start.
Sorry Bono, I don’t allow emails to my PC (stalker problems). Any private mail can go via my YA account (you’ll have to sign up, but it’s pretty easy).
I would just like to comment that I love your site/blog.
I have come back here many times while in “Google” mode. – Neanderthal, Cro Magnon, Holocene, DNA, Y Haplogroups, mtDNA, etc – and have always found a succinct educated and scientifically backed up point of view.
Keep up the excellent work!
Well thank you.
You wouldn’t believe some of the personal abuse I get on this site… This is such a pleasant change!!
May I know whether there is any conclusive evidence of the existence of Neanderthal genetic material in modern Europeans?
May I also have your take as to why the majority opinion, both scholarly and popular, supports OOA or some slight variant of it (more than one migration).
Finally, do you have any views of the Out of Taiwan (AOT) theory of the origins of Austronesians.
Hi, Mathilda! I’ve read through some of your postings and you are finding really interesting stuff to post. I am not an anthropologist or geneticist — I am an earth scientist, and I approach the question of human evolution and migration from the point of view of an earth scientist. I am continually frustrated by certain implied assumptions that geneticists have when they present their results and interpret them. They are not sufficiently educated in history and just how much we DO NOT know. So they try to fit their data into some very Victorian notions that at the same time are influenced by “Leakeyism” — if I can call it that. I do believe that evidence for hominin evolution in Africa prior to about 300,000 years ago is pretty strong. BUT then the Wisconsin glaciation period started and all bets after that are off! The extreme and rapid (on a time scale of decades) climate changes that have occurred repeatedly have shaped human beings AND determined where they could survive. So many anthropological geneticists ignore the implications of climate on evolutionary environment. It truly drives me nuts. I have arrived at what I think is a relatively simple explanation for why we are “missing” so much evidence of human evolution in the period between roughly 300K and 100K. The people who claim that modern humans arrived on the scene as recently as 70K ago, as if springing from the head of Minerva, are ignoring some very critical facts about climate history, sea level history, etc. You clearly invest a great deal of time in this blog. Do you also work professionally (meaning research and publishing)? Or are you at the stay-at-home mom phase? [Another one of my big beefs is the way the mothering responsibilities and social contributions of female scientists are denigrated and held against them in career advancement. As if the only thing that matters is your publication record! Personally, I believe that raising healthy happy children and maintaining a warm and loving family environment are essential to everyone’s happiness — including scientists!]
Well, I’m rattling on here. I’m wondering how comfortable you feel with statistics and if you’ve written professional (that is, published in journals) critiques of the reasoning mistakes of various geneticists and researchers.
And if I remember correctly, the latest genetic evidence on Neanderthal-Human interactions suggests that there was gene flow between the two sub-species up until about 100K. Then they were separated. What causes separation? Environment! Speciation is driven by some kind of environmental isolation. What causes environmental isolation? Well, that is the realm of earth scientists such as myself, and we have a lot to say about it, but the interdisciplinary communication is frequently rejected.
So, I would like to find out if you are interested in perhaps a private collaboration that might result in a research paper or two. I’ve been thinking about all this for a long time and have some ideas that I would like to pursue, but don’t feel sufficiently qualified in statistics or genetics to proceed on my own.
You can send me an email to the address that is not published when one posts on the blog. Thankfully. I’m sorry for all your “hate” mail. Racism from all sides is our dreadful colonial era inheritance.
Mathilda, as you already know from my earlier posts that I am a proud African American who is deeply intolerant of any and all Afrocentric or Eurocentric/White Nationalist theories of racial “exclusivity” and over-glorification, especially with regards to Egyptian civilization (which was racially DIVERSE from its inception).
True, most Afrocentrists consist of rude quasi-historians and prejudice Blacks who are satisfied with any untested information that purports Black claims and contributions to World history, whether true or not. As a Black man, the utter lack of general knowledge and common sense of Afrocentrists and the overall African American community uphaul me. Yet, Eurocentrics (i.e. White Nationalists) are not much different in their ignorance, often promoting theories of Celtic/Nordic origin for Egyptian and other civilizations. The only difference (I’ve seen) in the two extremes is that Eurocentrics have more published data and research which (to them) validates their horribly erroneous claims.
It seems the debate regarding Egypt’s racial heritage is one laced with hatred from these two unsubstanciated extremists’ theories, to the point of sheer futility. Even with all the historic and prehistoric evidence pointing to Egypts glorious, diverse heritage, all too many people from mild to radical take issue with that truth. Will we ever learn?
I’m doing some research on ancient forms of sequential art (ex: the Tiger’s Claw Manuscript from Mexico, the Bayeux Tapestry of France). I’ve come across your blog looking for images of Egypt’s Tomb of Menna (TT69). Can you recommend any sources for a more complete look at the paintings?
Thank you very much for your time.
I find your website and blog to be very interesting in that it tells the truth. I happened across it while looking for any modern maps that show the ancient inland sea that once covered part of North Africa. I would appreciate any link to a site that would show that. Mathilda keep up the good work. The Truth is suppose to be shouted from the house tops.
Hi – received some new informations from the archeologists Dr. Bradley, who search since years in North America, Europe and Asia. It is actually proofed, that the first people, who arrived in N-America, were the Solutrean Iceage hunters from France-Spain. They were sealhunters, with their leatherboats they went along the packice edge, which was a huge hunting ground. The sea currents were different, cause the packice.
They reached the eastcoast of N-America and they survived, untill the first Paleo-Indians came. A quarter of the North American Natives have old european DNA – the molecular biologists were actually surprised.
The South American datas are also fascinating, but they found no simmilar DNA. The oldest skulls have the same shape like the melanesian-aborigines race. The big question still is, how did they discovered South America. The anthropologist Thor Heyerthal constructed a watercraft in stoneage stile. It is quite easy to survive on sea – in the night fish are jumping on deck, he said. Freshwater we got by rain, which you have nearby everyday in the tropical Pacific. Therefore it can be possible, that these people crossed the Pacific. The main curret – the Kurido Current, near the tropical zone, goes eastwards – to the American westcoast. Today most of the scientists are convinced, the first people arrived at the Westcoast of Central America around 20.000 years ago, probably some thousends of years even earlier. The black hunters were the first humans in the Americas. The second were the European iceage hunters, who arrived at the eastcoast of North America around 18.000 years ago.
It was the Last Glacial Maximum, the packice covered the Atlantik till France and Virginia on the other side. Sealevel droped to 120 meters deeper – more land and landbridges existed and more islands of course.
Hi, I was browsing and hit your blog. Was wondering if you have any good surveys of Y DNA Mali and thereabouts.
Nope,. A bugbear of mine. Chad and Mali are kind of a dead zone for DNA at the moment.
hey! i was wondering if you could do some research on native americans and native american origins! i have tried loads but i just keep getting dead ends! i really don’t know where to begin!
Dear Mathilda – thank you for putting the effort you do into your blog site and making it available to amateurs like myself. I do hope Santa comes to you and you have a great 2008 Christmas and 2009 year. For an Aussie living in England for a couple of years, it has been a boon to have my interest in archaeology this winter. Lots more on Australia, Anatolia, and Peru please. I assume you know of Agatha Christie’s comment that the older a woman gets, the more interesting she becomes. Regards to you and family, Michael
I’ll have sniff around the older Aboriginal sites when I get time.
Hello Mathilda, a month ago Dr. David Meltzer, answered an e-mail that I sent to him and he asked me to send it to Dr. Dillehay, on his own words…
“Hello Jorge Garcia
Your email is received. The pictures are interesting. Have you sent them to Tom Dillehay at Vanderbilt University? He works on pre-Clovis in South America (Monte Verde site in Chile), and should see these also.
He is at: tom.d.dillehay@Vanderbilt.edu”
and this is the mail that I sent to Dr. Meltzer.
At 05:49 PM 11/20/2008, you wrote:
> Dear Dr. Meltzer,
> My name is Jorge García, maybe you remember me because I sent you an email on 2007 about our findings in a place near Taima-Taima in Venezuela. We have search the area of the coast of Falcón at this time for at least 20 years and we want to share our findings with you, so you can evaluate them. I have several pieces in my office and there’s a lot on the field too and there’s a lot of shops and ships, some times you find places with maybe 7 or 8 shops in a row with mountains of quartzite chips all over the place. Please acknowledge this email and I’ll send you pictures of the tools. Thank you. We just want to be heard. I’m sending you several pictures.
> Thank you.
Now, I would like to send you some pics of the tools, you’ll be amazed.
Jorge Luis García.
I find your website very interesting but I find myself puzzled at the importance placed on color of skin. We are all after all kin.
I always wanted to be white when I was growing up; to belong I guess. I am half Algerian, half french. I find that a lot of people are hang up on that and it’s not helpful. North african are not really accepted in any category and that’s good. They should focus on the education of the children. It is interesting to know where you come from but what you are now is what count. If one is stupid and his grand father was a genius; he is still stupid.
It seems to me that advance civilization as the western civilization is at present has many negative results:
automation means loss of true craftsmanship.
machine doing the work encourage laziness of the mind and of the body. Some of the true knowledge is displaced because education fails to train enough thinkers in modern countries while in over places education is highly valued. Maybe that’s why civilizations always decline. People get too comfortable and rely on the achievements of their ancestors; but I am sure someone else said that already and much better than I can. All that to say that what was up came down and what is up probably will also. Maybe the interesting part of knowing where we come from is not making the same mistake again. We are all stupid humans after all.
For your information Algerians are a
caucasoid/white race, the vast majority of Algerians are of Berber descent such as the: Kabyle, Riffians, Chaouia .etc. So even if you were not half French and you were 100% Algerian then you would would still be a caucasoid/white person; even if you have a tanned skin like most Mediterraneans who are all caucasoides.
I was wondering if you might have found any information in relation to the Egyptian mummy dna being tested? On Zahi Hawass’ website, he stated that they were conducting tests and would have results within two months. Well those two months have come and gone… it’s been about half a year and still no results published on Hawass website or any website. It is like a complete silence. I have searched up and down the ‘net for any info about the testing but cant find anything.
I absolutely LOVE your blog. Keep it coming, you are a WEALTH of information!!!
Unfortunately no. I’ve even asked through friends at a major museum and can’t get any info on mummy DNA.
I’m a former history student who once harbored dreams of a career in archeology before succumbing to the dark side and obtaining a law degree. I just discovered your blog, and am highly impressed. Frankly, for a brief moment, it transported me back to my heady college days when I dreamed of finding the answers to the questions of our origins and commonalities. Thanks for a great read!
In any event, I am adding you to my blogroll, and plan on being back often.
OOA. I think the evidence of the mt Eve is pretty convincing.
If there were multiple points of origin it seems you would be playing a very long shot in a probability sense. We don’t have civilized dolphins creating cities so the chances of multiple primate origins is also improbable.
My objection is mainly because there are multiple studies showing ancient DNA in modern humans.
How ancient please?
I guess there comes a time in a specialized field when amateurs like me need to ask the experts, “where does the PREPONDERANCE OF CURRENT EVIDENCE lie?” I’d really be interested in your take on this, because I thought mutliregionalism, though still conceptually alive, has been on a fighting retreat for the past decade.
Hi Mathilda, I’m an editor for an Australian publishing house, currently working on a children’s non-fiction picture book on human civilisation. I came across this image of a female skeleton –
https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/the-natufians/ – which is exactly what we need to accompany a text box on Natufian culture. I’d be very grateful for your permission to use it, or even information on where you found it would be most helpful. Please feel free to respond to my email address, if you’d like to contact me outside of comments. Kinds regards, hilaryr.
I swiped it from the San Diego museum site. Not mine to use, but I have no cash so I don’t worry about being sued!
I had a wondering today …
Could the comet that is now proven to have impacted about 12,500 / 13,000 years ago in Northern USA / Canada … have caused the virtual end to the Clovis Culture and explain the low percentage of mtDNA type X in North America?
This comet would likely have also changed climate significantly for a period of time … explaining the mega fauna extinctions in North America? … and melting/opening up the corridor for Paleo Humans to travel down from Beringia …?
In Europe – could the corresponding climate change from the effects of the comet have hastened the final extinction of Neanderthal? … because, unlike Modern Humans they had no reservoir in the south of population to rebound from?
The link to information about the comet is here: http://remotecentral.blogspot.com/2008/07/more-evidence-for-comet-over-canada.html
What do you think?
Have a great day Mathilda!
I’ve had a bash at that subject somewhere on the blog…
Yes, I do think it must have created an opportunity fo new mogoloid Asians to have arrived and severely danmaged the population on North America at the time. It set fire to huge amounts of North America, so I think large scale extinctions were porbably in order too.
I have a question for you.
I’m a sophmore in college and doing a project on jewelry and social class in Harappan culture and was wondering how valid your information is. Not at all trying to sound rude, but my professor wants me to validate the information with the sites you got the pictures from. Please respond to my email ASAP my project is due next week.
I can’t remember all of them sorry. A few came from this site on Mohenjo Daro.
That’s good for the jewellery (it’s on the photos if you look).
You have a very interesting blog here with lots of collected info.
I am researching about IVC and I would love to share, learn and discuss about ancient IVC, Please add me to your mail and me an email.
Thank you! 🙂
Sorry, I never give out email info.
…on the origin of amerindians, the inuit say,
the people before them were the toniti, a tall
race who wore robes with high collars, perhaps
a description of neander hunters, but from a
particular period. the russian word for elephant
being, sloan, perhaps toniti was the inuit effort
to say, elephant/ollin pantli(N)=the holy flag
and, pamitl(N)=flag(family).analysis of the
name, inuit, in nauatl/4water, gives: in/the
uitz/arrival, coming. the inuit, yes, were a bering
cross and moved east, part of the northern deer
tribes of russian asia, but the toniti/tonatiuh(N)=sun tribes may have been gravettian mammoth
hunters, 22k bc, and they came over the north atlantic, one likes to think in elephant hide boats
with ivory oars and ribs, why not, they already
had built their house tents of the same animal,
and some of them had big cat skulls, the
birthing animal from the caves, on top,
perhaps to mark where ladys and children were,
or their nightclub. in any case, the gravettian
cross from floe to floe over the north atlantic
gave the amerindians their 5th blood group,
european dna, so as the inuit later moved
east from siberia, their predecessors moved
west, the toniti, from the mammoth hunting grounds of kostenkij, russia(in the moscow time
zone) into europe and thence by sea craft
they hopped the north atlantic, gave us the
solutrean point which fathered the clovis.
any examination of north amerindian language
runs into bedrock nauatl, calendric shards from
the tonalamatl/booksouls. we’re one people
on this globe, the blue planet, the 4th plant,
if one includes antonio tonatiuh, the sunstar.
I am very new to your blog and I am a bit surprised by your assertion that the “Out of Africa” (OOA) theory of modern human origins is far from being the current scholarly consensus view. Would that make you a supporter of multi-regionalism? I’ve also never encountered the “weak Eden” argument you mentioned. Please educate me on that.
For the record, I believe that Afrocentrism is as intellectually shallow as Eurocentrism was a hundred years ago. Politics and ideology are perhaps unavoidable in any field of human study that requires judgement, but let’s tone it down, for heaven’s sake!
Technically I support the ‘weak Eden’ theory, which means mostly Out of Africa, but with a bit of archaic human like Neanderthal and Erectus mixed in. Also, not at all recent. Anyone who quotes 40k as the exit date from Africa needs to read up a lot, it was probably over 100k ago.
I have issues with Afrocentrists as they repeatedly spam my blog with hate mail and libel me on other sites.
…40k is the glaciation and spread of firedrill/
perforation in 3 places, periwinkle shells are
pierced for decoration and found in s. afrika,
kostenkij(russia) and the dordogne. my date
for out of afrika is the gene pool date, 72k.
i am not afrocentrist, in fact, believe neander
was our prometheus for language, firedrill
(music, from flute bellows), religion, language
(nauatl), and, looking at the ainu and tahitians,
believe there was a huge neander/cromag cross
that science insists on whitewashing.
Hmm. Mt DNa type M is dated to about 74k and older in India, and about 87k in East Asia. You also get human habitation through the Toba eruption in the far East about 74k ago, and a skull from China dates to at least 70k old, so I’m sticking with 100k or older.
If there was any Neanderthal in modern humans, it’s probably under five percent. The incoming modern humans had a couple of technologies that Nenaderthals didn’t They weren’t backwards animals though.
Marcelo is “surprised by your assertion that the Out of Africa theory of modern human origins is far from being the current scholarly consensus view”. So am I. I understand you support the “weak Eden” approach, but what makes you say the OOA theory is far from consensus?
Or are you using “consensus” in the very strict semantic form, as in 100%, 10 out of 10, no-one-disagrees kind of meaning (in which case even gravity wouldnt be considered consensus…)?
but what makes you say the OOA theory is far from consensus?
The published papers in genetics and anthropology are far from united in their support of the OOA theory. I read through a lot of them, and I’d say it’s about 50/50 for anthropologists. I had Milford Wolpof leave a list of anti OOA material in the comments of the ‘so all anthroplogists support the OOA theory do they?‘ entry last year.
…i agree. i use 72k/gene pool common afrikan
ancestor as the bingo date(the latest possible)
because afro eve has to leave her continent for the common gene pool to happen, and her
expedition was from south/eastern afrika to
kostenkij/russian riverine and further east.
linguistically speaking, the (r) does not represent
a new sound. it is the decayed sound of east
asian speakers of nauatl based on palate
difference, a mechanical distinction that
probably was promoted by heavier cross-
breeding with neander in the asian area.
the hairy ainu and tahitian cannot be explained
away, i.e., they are not caucasian, nor are
they afrikan. an added note is that the ainu,
tz/ts sound is a click, equal to the tl(N) click,
e.g., tl t/l/r, tz/dz/z/s/c/k/qu/g. see my
tzopilotl. wordpress blog , 13 to 26, for
ongoing discussion of the letter/letra code.
there is no doubt that all of eurasia
received the nauatl message from the cave
epoch with the (r) sound reserved for the
highest percentage of neander cross.
the russian riverine may well be the heartland
of the most successful neander crosses,
where this species reached an apogee
aided by incoming afrikans. one has
only to think of the khazars, superb horsemen
(a hunting, neandercross skill), who held
back islam singlehandedly from europe,
7c ad. for which see, the 13th tribe, arthur
koestler. a turkish tribe who converted
en masse to judaism(to maintain political
equilibrium), they were red-haired, green/
blue eyed, the neander stamp on cromagnon.
now we ask, what sort of cross was it, the
answer would be: neander father, cromag
mother would produce the freckled, red-
headed kazars. the reverse would produce,
has produced, in 1957, a buddhist monk.
not joking. google: almas, russia, to see.
oddly enough the tlaloc/rarog shift seems
to place the origin of language, or at least
the current that predominated in all the world’s languages, in the west, with the later solutreans.
Haplotype M is abou 74k old at least in Asia, 100k as an exit date is more realistic.
I like your blog. My main dislikes are the obsessive focus on Europeans and their history. I am European myself from the Mediterranean region. I am J1e, Y , and V, mtDna, haplogroups, both rare in Europeans one supposedly from the East side of the Mediterranean in Semitic speakers and the other originating in the Pyrenees of Spain. I take all those haplogroup predictions of the possible origins of the men and women bearing those haplogroups with a large grain of salt. We are not our ancestors and the haplogroups present today are just the tip of the haplogroup iceberg that existed 10,ooo and 20,000 years ago in our ancestors. Many haplogroups have become extinct.
What is with the obsession about silly things like skin colour or eye colour. I am male, and most over 50 are bald and many grey haired, their eyes obscured by fatty tissues, and their skins blotchy. Fair skin is not very advantageous.
How about less focus on “Whitey” issues like drinking raw milk, lactose digesting abilities.
My main dislikes are the obsessive focus on Europeans and their history
I think I have about twenty entries out of four hundred odd about Europe – my focus is mainly north Africa and the Neolithic revolutions in Anatolia and West Iran. Believe me European prehistory is boring as hell.
Many haplogroups have become extinct
Very true, but they still do give a good indicator of ancestry for most people.
What is with the obsession about silly things like skin colour or eye colour.
I’ve always been interested in the genetics of human appearance. I’ve also got info an Asian hair mutations. The lactase ersistance has to do with dietary adapaptations, which affects black Africans too, so it’s not a ‘whitey’ issue.
I’m 19 years old and a sophomore in college. I have always been extremely interested in anthropology and actually wanted to major in anthropology in college for a long time. I’m studying to be a nurse now instead.
I just wanted to thank you for this EXCELLENT blog… Everything I find on here is extremely interesting to me. I myself have done research on ancient peoples and what their customs were, what they looked like, etc.
When did you acquire such an interest? Surely you don’t find all of this information on the web? What interests you most about anthropology?
Again, just wanted to thank you SO MUCH for this awesome site! I have “Favorited” it so that I have easy access!
Well thanks Jenna.
I’ve had an interest in anthropology since I was a kid. My uncle came back with a wife of San ancestry when I was eight, and I was just fascinated at how different she looked from the other black people I’d seen around. I’ve also spent a fair amount of time in Africa, which I why I have a focus on that area.
Surely you don’t find all of this information on the web?
You’d be amazed at just what you can find on the internet if you learn how to use google properly. But I also have pretty good access to a museum and it’s resources.
I am very sorry of your ignorance Mr BOTH by saying that most north african do not known theirs origins. I think what happen to you already happened to the raven when he wants to imitate the pigeon walk ,he forgot the way he used to walk . We are semetics,hametics, arabics,berberes,blacks.,ottmans……and proud to belong to the humans society.
For certains our ancestor is an ape,for me and others is Adam peace upon Him
Seldom have I been so delighted as I was when I read your views on afrocentrism. Ha! My exact feeling about it, and it’s proponents! I’m a fan Mathilda!!!
Thank you Vaslovik
…for anyone who doubts neander cross, read
the letters response in the feb 2009 national
geographic. the female neander mock-up
was a snapshot for many of her living descendents. the planck genome sequence
is a very thin wedge of the whole truth.
Mathilda, what language or languages would the sitter for a Fayoum portrait have spoken? Latin? Arabic? Greek?
Egyptian probably for every day, but some would have had Greek as a second ‘educated ‘ language, as some of the families fathers were of Greek descent from the Alexandrian invasion of Egypt.
I was admiring the picture of the Cro-magnon cast on your website. I am looking for one like this for my collection at College of the Mainland. Do you know where this particular cast could be purchased? It is the best one and I have searched the internet and cannot find it!
I really like your blog. I will be back.
tell me the page.. I’m not sure what you mean.
Glad you like the blog though.
have you ever heard about armenian? interestingly enough your map simply disregards it; why? because it is small? but it is considered the oldest I-E language, and maybe you wish to check parallels between all those languages that emerged from hitti? or maybe you rather not?
I’ve only just started getting into languages- so I’m sticking to the two most relevant to me at the moment.
…if you’re starting with languages why not collect dictionarys as well and read them?
i would pick up a used sandeido japanese
(in english alfabet), and try to get ahold
of simeon’s, nauatl diccionario, in spanish,
as this is 5k bpe and proto indoeuro(pie/every
language), and a latin dictionary. begin with
these three, then check my tzopilotl.wordpress
blog for the article, 13-26, how we got from
13letters of 5k bpe nauatl to 26englishletters.
once that you can start following words from
one dictionary to the next, see/hear how they morph, note down the letter shifts, and you
will have the blueprint for any language you
want to learn. you follow form, e.g., allergy/
(a)lle(r)gy= a ll/tlec/gy=tleco(N)=rise, the
not rise, because allergys lay one low, no?
good luck, and if you want further advice,
just ask, i always answer my mail.
Thank you Carlos
mathilda37, just stopping by to say how much I love your blog. 🙂
Hi Mathilda. Love your site, very informative!
Did you ever find out why the mDNA Haplogroup T reaches a high frequency in Ireland ? and it’s connections to Egypt..
No, sorry Pharoan. Generally my area of knowledge is the near East and North Africa.
Well Mathilda, Thank you anyway. By the way, You’re doing an excellent Job and continue much success.
…for pharaon. the mythology of robert graves states that the zeus/chronus war drove chronus,
the youngest neander/titan to a far isle in the
british archipelago, probably ireland. the basque and irish, welch, scotch are similar blood types, pointing to an early sea age, 4k bc, that
historians missed. also the basques have strong
connection with turkey, cf., my tzopilotl
wordpress blog, 13 to 26 article.
…follow up to haplogroup T. it originates about
8k bc, about the time gobekli broke up and the
hill covered. then it spread to baltic, e.g.,
lithuania, from the word, tlil(N)=black, dark,
the liths have the highest concentration of sanskrit of any european language. T haplo
also goes to india, and into europe. so haploT
appears to be connected to the post-edenic
climate change that brought down gobekli
hunter-gatherers and wheaters, who then
as nomads fell into trade routes and exploiting
the horse as truck and commerse, the last
redoubt of hunter-gatherers defending themselves against agriculture/aqui(N)/aq,
Good Stuff, That would explain it..
Thanks for your comments.
I just want to say these things. OOA, it is a theory based on haplogroups coalescing into African haplogroups. It neither proves or disproves, just shows that our male and female lines, two lines of descent appear to go back to Africa. Interesting but not really earth shattering.
Haplogroups do show lines of descent but the depth is limited. Example, R1b , the common of the common European Y haplogroup found in the furthest part of Europe from Asia, and rare in Africa. Runaway conclusions were: it is paleolithic, it is Cro Magnon dna, it belonged to the men who painted caves in France and Europe in prehistory and belongs to certain ancient prehistoric cultures because those cultures can or are wishfully associated with certain human fossil remains. Anyone perusing the list of Y haplogroups can see an association with geography. A, B and E are African. F and those down from it are Near Eastern/Middle Eastern and K, M9 originated in Asia outside of the Near East. No hapl0group originated in Europe, the nearest point to Europe is the Near East for F and its descendants. Haplogroup subclades of E and J have been naturalised, made European, as they occur significantly in European men: J2, E-V13 and of course haplogroup I which is of Near East origin but found mostly in Europe, especially among the NW Europeans which gives haplogroup I special status as true blue European. The point of this is that all the stuff said about haplogroups being Paleolithic European in origin is unproven, and not based on any real evidence. Hammer found R1 to be 18,000 years old and Central Asian in origin. Rootsi, and Semino found J1 to be 24,000 years old. So what is closer to Europe? The Mediterranean Levantine area or Central Asia! It is interesting that Q is found in Amerindians, as is mtDNA x and mtDNA x is found in Europeans, and Q is the haplogroup cousin of R.
…dispersal of firedrill=40k bc, the date we find
periwinkle shells being perforated for ornament on 3 continents:
afrika(southeast), europe(dordogne), asia(kostenkij needles, later the gravettian 22k).
if we take a ride on the thoroughbred haplo
groups, R and Q(20k), they take us to their
sire, K(40k), stabled in south central asia.
now we go to the word, atl(N)=water, which
begins everything we know of civilization,
that is, religion/tleco(N)=rise, follow the
word string to the reverential of water/atl(N)=
altia)=lauded, and with one shift of letters
arrive at, the Altai mts. , close as we can get
to haplogroup K(40k bc). this is the spiritual
center, the founder effect, of all the voices
heard in the world today, our planet, the
This is an incredible blog!! Not only do I love mummies and mummy photos but I hate the Afro-centrists as much as you do. Great job!!
This is an incredible blog!! Not only do I love mummies and mummy photos but I hate the Afro-centrists as much as you do. Great job!!
They feel the incessant need to spam me with crap and abuse, so now I make a point of irrtating them whenever possible.
…ah, correction: altia/oalti, then, alaua/oalauh(N). the preterit of altia=oalti, preterit of alaua=
…altia/oalti(N)=to bathe, altar. the turkish word
for gold/alti(n). a review of the al-words in a turkish dictionary comes up with founding words, such as, al(T)=bright red/ âl(T)=
exalted, sublime/alti(T)=6(the priestly sign, booksouls/tonalamatl/skull)/alt(T)=buttocks?
tzintli(N/honorific)=saintly: arse(english slang)/
the bottom floor, on which the upper floors depend.
the wash of gold:
altia(N) altai(mts) alti(n). the nauatl word for
copper/iron/bronze/metal in general= boiled rock=tepuztli(N). the words for gold and silver=
white godshit, cuitlatl(N)=tail, tailings, is
the word, tail=(cui/cuidar)tlatl= tl/ta(i)t/l=
tail, the cui(N)=estimarse, care. note the
english words: tattletale, trail. tattle(E) has
the sense, stutter, that from, tataca(N/freq.)=
dig/ta(r)taglia(Ital)=sttutter. when you get
a word with 2 roots, you know you’re at pie.
reflecting back on gold and the Turks, if
one takes a thick catalogue of the world’s
coins and monetary items, Turkey is far and
away the leader(by furlongs)of the denomination sweepstakes. tks.
Great site! I, too, like MrSpk am a history undergrad who gave up archeology dreams and became a lawyer. This is a wonderful resource.
To Pharaon: you mention the mDNA Haplogroup T and links between Ireland and Egypt. According to legend, the Irish claimed to have migrated all over, including Spain and Egypt beforehand. They were known as the Scots (Irish settlers becoming the ‘Scots’ of ‘Scotland’), according to legend, because in their wanderings, a tribal leader had married a woman named Scota, the daughter of an Egyptian pharoah.
Mathilda- keep up the good work against the Afrocentrists. Don’t forget, for many, this is a tenet of their religion (Nation of Islam), not unlike many Mormons still insisting that the accomplishments of Meso-America are those of the Lost Tribe of Israel.
for many, this is a tenet of their religion (Nation of Islam),
Ahh, that explains a lot.
From Wikipedia (I know, not the greatest source, but backs up conversations I’ve had in Detroit, the birthplace of the Nation of Islam):
“The Nation of Islam teaches that Black people were the original humans. Louis Farrakhan has stated that “White people are potential humans…they haven’t evolved yet.” (Philadelphia Inquirer, 3/18/00).
“The Blackman is the Original Man. From him came all brown, yellow, red, and white people. By using a special method of birth-control law, the Blackman was able to produce the white race. This method of birth control was developed by a Black scientist known as Yakub, who envisioned making and teaching a nation of people who would be diametrically opposed to the Original People. A Race of people who would one day rule the original people and the earth for a period of 6,000 years. Yakub promised his followers that he would graft a nation from his own people, and he would teach them how to rule his people through a system of tricks and lies whereby they use deceit to divide and conquer, and break the unity of the darker people, put one brother against another, and then act as mediators and rule both sides.” (Elijah Muhammad, Message to the Blackman in America, Muhammad’s Temple No. 2, 1965 & Dorothy Blake Fardan, Yakub and the Origins of White Supremacy, Lushena Books, 2001) ”
Now do you see the theological framework for the Afrocentrists’ attempt at hijacking Egyptian history?
Now do you see the theological framework for the Afrocentrists’ attempt at hijacking Egyptian history?
Yep. Explains the aversion to science too (religion).
…this may astound some scots but i have them
as the schottisch/xochitl(N)=flower of the sea
people from 4k to 1.5k bc and they looked
polynesian like tiger woods, which may be where he got his talent besides from teotl(N),
that they were the tatooed woads/ua atl(N)=water/atl ua/owners the english rave on about, and that they traded tobacco, a preagricultural
plant, whose god, 5flower/macui(5)xochitl,
is the oldest god mexico has, predates the
corn aristocracy, 3309k bc(the quetzalcoatl
espedition). something went on across the
pacific to give its islands nauatl/naui(4) navy
names, e.g., maori/ma/hand/net ollin/movement, tahiti/otaiti=otlatl(N)=
thick cane, for vanguard merchants,
and that’s just the polynesian side of it,
after 4th millenium the haplo sea group
found the basques, welsh/ualchiua(N)=
come(war) to do/rule/irish/scots/ and
a good part of southern england share
celtic foot, R1b1b2a1b5, c.1500bc/the sea
age of history. scot, from the word, cotoni(N)=
pinch(haig and haig), cut(cotton), cut of tobacco,
and i do hear of tobacco present in the
preservation of mummies between the
the egyptian old and new kingdoms, is
that true or a canard/canauhtli(N)=duck?
c.1500bc or earlier?
Mathilda I’d like to debate in a forum called siftingsands.org about the “racial make-up” of ancient egypt, will you accept?
Mathilda I’d like to debate in a forum called siftingsands.org about the “racial make-up” of ancient egypt, will you accept?
Not really, I have my time pretty much taken up with this blog and activity on another forum. I’ll have a look at it the site though..
Hmm-might have a nose aound in the spare ten minutes a day I get. Whats your user name?
Go to the anthropology section, and it’s a thread there called white Egypt, just post your points and we can begin the debate, no need to get cold feet.
Not so much cold feet as ‘apathy’. Honestly I couldn’t even be bothered to ream Bass this week on my normal forum let alone wade through huge blacks of c&P pseudo scientific waffle a la Clyde Winters.
Just answer reasonably these questions. Show some smarts and I’ll have a go as long you you actually respond on the site and just don’t spam with cut and paste, which I have no time for.
1; Keita has expressly stated modern Egyptians have mainly been there since the pleistocene and don’t look different. Why do you pretend he’s claiming they were black?
2; Lucottes Y DNA studies have shows less about 7% percent input into Lower Egypt since post neolithic era (that lucotte study is mentioned ), mainly they are native Africans. How can they look different if there’s been no populaiton change?
3. Why the deliberate misinterpretations of Herodotus. The hair was woolly/very curly- not kinky. Also they call Caucasus groups black, so why the claim this means black African? Not one tarce of any African population has been found in that area ever. And why ignore that he says Egyptians weren’t Ethiopians (black Africans). There are plenty of text examples of Eurpeans using brown to mean tanned and black to mean heavily tanned like gypsies. Why claim this means black African when it’s well known it doesn’t?
4. Diop’s melanin test is mythical, and was proved to be BS when actual anthropologists examined Ramses. Why claim it’s a valid test? It’s never been subject to any peer study or even described as a process.
4. What African Y chromsomes in Greeks? their v13 is from the near East. SNP clustering studies have shown they effectively have zip African ancestry in them.
5. Why ignore that modern Egyptians have a tropical body plan the same as ancient Egyptians? (they do)
6. Why pretend that the predynastic Badarians nmeasure up the sme as dynastic Egyptians? They dont.
7. Why pretend that the Badari remains are typical of lowere Egyptians when every study will tell you lower Egyptians were close to European phenotypes? (including Keita).
8. Why say the ss africa mt Dna was found in the mummies. It was, but only as a minority. Why the misleading statement?
9. Why pretend that the mummies are black. Skin only ever darkens after death and a lot of them are still very light in colour, with black Nubian mummies being easy to tell apart from the Egyptian ones.
10. Why not say that the mtDNA link between Egpt (gurna) and Ethiopia was actually a Asian mt DNA type (m1)?
That’ll do for now. I’m particularly keen to see how you explain just how a population with only 5% average input from Asia since the neolithic has completely changed appearance, since you need about 25% to make even a slight change to the average.
I don’t understand Mathilda, I would think that having the debate on that forum as opposed to your blog would actually convience you seeing as though you have to approve and dissapprove comments on your blog, whereas on a forum you just instantly post your reponse, as I would do. What’s the difference between me posting my responses here and you responding, on this blog than doing the exact same on a forum. Seems like someone does have cold feet, without the moderating power to approve or dissapprove post at will.
The set questions were to decided whether you would actually come up with a decent case- you failed, you lied on several points and refused to deal with others.
Not worth the effort on my part.
Well I’ll take a shot at these scary questions…
“1; Why do you pretend he’s claiming they were black? ”
Because he HAS claimed that:
“The ‘role of the blacks’ in ancient Egypt is ‘nothing less than having been a part of the original Nile Valley population. There is no one authentic African phenotype. – Keita
Cited from Finally in Africa”, Race & Class, Vol. 45, No. 1, 31-60 (2003)
“2; Lucottes Y DNA studies have shows less about 7% percent input into Lower Egypt since post neolithic era (that lucotte study is mentioned ), mainly they are native Africans. How can they look different if there’s been no populaiton change?”
Most do acknowledge population change in lower Egypt much more so than in the south and this is exactly where we see the highest rate of foreign admixture, especially in J. There is no evidence that such was there in those frequencies since the neolithic. In fact, lower Egyptians had tropical body plans:
“Moving to the opposite geographic extremity, the very small sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty(Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline of variation along the Nile Valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into Palestine.
[B]The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans”[/B]
Barry Kemp (Author) Publisher: Routledge; 2 edition (December 12, 2005)
“3. Why the deliberate misi
nterpretations of Herodotus. The hair was woolly/very curly- not kinky. Also they call Caucasus groups black, so why the claim this means black African? Not one tarce of any African population has been found in that area ever. And why ignore that he says Egyptians weren’t Ethiopians (black Africans). There are plenty of text examples of Eurpeans using brown to mean tanned and black to mean heavily tanned like gypsies. Why claim this means black African when it’s well known it doesn’t?”
Problem being Herodotus and others claimed that the hair of the Ethiopians was woolly and not Kinky others (like St. Jerome) have described ancient Colchidians as “Black” and referred to it as the “second Ethiopia” due to the immigrant population there. Also, Herodotus only reaffirmed his observation in a different context when stating that the nile couldn’t come from the melting of snow since the inhabitants of Egypt were “Black from the heat”.. Not to mention that they used the word “Melas” (Black) to describe them and not “tawny” or “brown” in which they had words for, as Aristotle shows by calling Ethiopians and Egyptians “too black” and “extreme”, while contrasting them to an intermediate color (tawny) as seen among lions, who are relatively darker than white themselves.
“4. Diop’s melanin test is mythical, and was proved to be BS when actual anthropologists examined Ramses. Why claim it’s a valid test? It’s never been subject to any peer study or even described as a process.”
Diop never tested Ramses nor has he claimed to. This is a straw.
From a more recent study and concerning New Kingdom mummies:
“Materials and methods
In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately
1550_/1080 BC)….. The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin.”
“4. What African Y chromsomes in Greeks? their v13 is from the near East. SNP clustering studies have shown they effectively have zip African ancestry in them.”
This is incoherent.. And BTW you counted 4 twice?
“Why ignore that modern Egyptians have a tropical body plan the same as ancient Egyptians? (they do)”
OK.. Post studies showing that modern lower Egyptians have tropical body plans as I’ve posted one showing the ancient lower Egyptians do.
“6. Why pretend that the predynastic Badarians nmeasure up the sme as dynastic Egyptians? They dont.”
That’s a lie..
“the Badarian sample has been described as forming a morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or \Negroid”) groups (Morant, 1935, 1937; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Nutter, 1958, Strouhal, 1971; Angel, 1972; Keita, 1990). [B]Cranial nonmetric trait studies have found this group to be similar to other Egyptians, including much later material”, [/B](Berry and Berry, 1967, 1972) – Zakrzewski (2007)
“. Why pretend that the Badari remains are typical of lowere Egyptians when every study will tell you lower Egyptians were close to European phenotypes? (including Keita).”
Keita actually describes lower Egyptians as being intermediate.
The Lower Egyptian pattern is intermediate to that of the various northern Europeans and West African and Khoisan – Keita
While other studies have found lower Egyptians to group with Africans in terms of the body plan. Brace equates tropical body plans with dark [Black] skin.
“8. Why say the ss africa mt Dna was found in the mummies. It was, but only as a minority. Why the misleading statement?”
Well……. it was and who says it was in the “minority” when the other lineages weren’t identified? Keita says they are most likely African based on archaeological inferences. What this is, is wishful thinking.
“9. Why pretend that the mummies are black. Skin only ever darkens after death and a lot of them are still very light in colour, with black Nubian mummies being easy to tell apart from the Egyptian ones.”
Straw man.. No one claims them to be black based on the presence of dark skin on a decayed mummy/corpse but as cited, microscopic analyses confirms this anyway and so does eye-witness accounts and limb ratios. Your so called distinction between “Nubian” and “Egyptian” is generic and superficial.
“10. Why not say that the mtDNA link between Egpt (gurna) and Ethiopia was actually a Asian mt DNA type (m1)?”
M1 is African, that’s why..
“Although two mtDNA lineages with an African origin (haplogroups M and N) were the progenitors of all non-African haplogroups, macrohaplogroup L (including haplogroups L0-L6) is limited to sub-Saharan Africa.”
Tishkoff and Kivisild 2006
^^The people who first carried it would have been east African migrants OOA.
Yes, what I expected, a response full of lies and made up crap. This is why you can’t debate with an Afronauat.
Keita said blacks were in Egypt as part of the range of phenotypes which he makes very clear is the same today as it was then; and he has said Egyptians are the sme populaiton now with minor immigration; he doesn’t say they were all black, and it’s dishonest to say he does. The vid where he explains this is on this blog.
Most do acknowledge population change in lower Egypt much more so than in the south–
yes but still less than 10% in Lower Egypt . Funny how you leave that out. And please- which studies exactly? And since less than 10% input will make bugger all difference to phenoype (Black Americans are 22% european)
BTW, Egyptians are African. Their Limb lengths are exactly the same as ancient Egyptians and not at all like Europeans-you’ve repeated that lie know knowing it’s untrue. I can show a book chart with modern Egyptian limb lengths on them, longer than a black Americans.
And what did I say about cut and paste bullshit? You just refused to deal with the issue and use the word kinky instead of woolly (which means very curly in this context) again.
That cut and paste used Diops made up mythical melanin drop test. Also I suspecty that little german study is made up or misquoted like a lot of that info- show source. They may well have been nubian mummies and I suspect you have tampered with the text in some way- since you have done so on other source.
Funny how Keita is the only source you’ll quote. I notice you omit to mention that most of the studies show lower Egyptians grouping first with modern North Africans and Europeans- and there have been a lot of them. Also genetically the upper Egyptian population shows virtually no input since the late pleistocene- so how they are meant to be different I’d like to know. The ‘All African’ groups Keita groups the Badarians with still have about half Eurasian ancestry anyway, and since most of the studies show Badarians to be mixed race… And there’s no evidence theskin colour was ANY different, and the hair certainly wasn’t Afro..
Keitas work manufactures closeness to black African samples by omitting the nearest Caucasoid populations and by using northern Europeans as a base line- the group that shows least similarity to modern Egyptians. He’s found Palestinian samples to be Nubian-his methods are very dodgy and he has some outright innacuraccies in his papers.
That DNA study only shows some African lineages, and this was when M1 was considered African in origin. Funny how the other DNA study showing continuity was waved off by you.
Get over it, M1 is Asian in origin and has been shown to be so by one in depth study of it, and two others that involve it peripherally. L3 was the OOA mt DNA, not M. LMAO. I note you have picked an old study published before this very detailed study to quote.
Showing that M1 came down the Nile into East Africa. I’ve got the maps showing the distribution. I also have a very detailed understanding of the Y chr and mt DNA movements across North Africa from about 40k to present- successive waves of Eurasians arrived in North Africa about 35k ago, 10k ago and 8k ago, and having an Afro-hissy won’t change the facts that ancient DNA has picked up these mtDNA types in North Africa up to 12k ago,and the DNA studies date J1 Y chr and H mtdNA to over 10k old in north Africa including EGYPT.
Different Afrocentrist, same made up bullshit, and an inability to answer just why Egyptians have magically changed appearance with less than 10% historic input at the delta. If you’d managed to answer the questions instead of waffling and pasting (which I said I wouldn’t go for) I’d have assumed you have some brain- but no, same repeated bollocks and no originality.
…Get ’em Mathilda. Good Stuff!
Cut and Paste? Are you referring to my reference of studies and the text which supports my stance? If so how in Heck would you expect to have a serious debate. Or wait…. you don’t really want to have a serious debate do you? You seem to be angered that I’ve not reached your same conclusion from the studies that I’ve referenced, but that in no way merrits you to say that I made anything up.
Lol It’s called a debate Mathilda, so no need to blow your wig because my stance on Egypt doesn’t fit in your lilly white picture…Ok cool.
I’m not sure if you saying
“Not worth the effort on my part”
Means you’re through with the debate, or you won’t allow any more of my post through.
So instead I’ll only answer two questions for now going to answer only two of your questions and the summarization of Keita’s
” The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians”
for now unless I see you’ll let my post through.
1)The population structure of those earliest M1 carriers were representative of the most recent of recent Africans. We’re discussing ancient paleolithic history, before the existence of “white skin” or the bulk of non-African diversity. M and N spawned all non-African populations and as such, are not exclusive to them and will be shared by the descendants of the original OOA migrants (who are African and share overall affinity with Africans). M1 is still found in isolation among some Africans without the burden of Asain-specific haplotypes and its highest diversity is in Africa. The M haplogroup its self has been in Africa before the OOA migration. M1 is a derivative of M so M1 is proof of African, not Asian ancestry no matter how you cut it.
2)Keita’s primary position is that “race” is defunct. This example was only to show that the extreme “Negroid” variant is a part of Saharo-tropical Africa. It is inclusive!
“In summary, various kinds of data and the evolutionary approach indicate that the Nile Valley populations had greater ties with other African populations in the early ancient period. Early Nile Valley populations were primarily coextensive with indigenous African populations. Linguistic and archaeological data provide key supporting evidence for a primarily African origin.”
Angel, J. L., and J. O. Kelley, Description and comparison of the skeleton. In The Wadi Kubbaniya Skeleton: A Late Paleolithic
Burial from Southern Egypt. E Wendorf and R. Schild. pp. 53-70. Dallas: Southern Methodist University Press. 1986
Brauer, G., and K. Rimbach, Late archaic and modern Homo sapiens from Europe, Africa, and Southwest Asia: Craniometric comparisons and phylogenetic implications, Journal of Human Evolution 19:789-807. 1990
Drake, St. C., Black Folk Here and There, vol 1. Los Angeles: University of California. 1987
Keita, S.O.Y., Studies and comments on ancient Egyptian biological relationships. History in Africa 20:129-154. 1993
Mahmoud, L. et. al, Human blood groups in Dakhlaya. Egypt. Annuals of Human Biology. 14(6):487-493. 1987
Paabo, S., and A. Di Rienzo, A molecular approach to the study of Egyptian history. In Biological Anthropology and the Study
of Ancient Egypt. V. Davies and R. Walker, eds. pp. 86-90. London: British Museum Press. 1993
Petrie, W.M., F. The Making of Egypt. London: Sheldon Press. 1984
Thoma, A., Morphology and affinities of the Nazlet Khaterman. Journal of Human Evolution 13:287-296. 1984
So Yeah It’s pretty clear that the Ancient Egyptians were Indigenous Northeast Africans, AND THIS IS KEITA’S official stance.
Here’s the Cambridge lecture where he also proves this stance (he also references numerous other older studies that come to the same conclusion)
Dr. Shomarka Omar Yahya Keita talks at Cambridge University about race, ethnicity, language, and origins of Ancient Egyptians and Afro-Asiatics.
1. Part 1
2. Part 2
3. Part 3
4. Part 4
5. Part 5
6. Part 6
BTW please post the study showing Modern Egyptians limb lengths.
BTW please post the study showing Modern Egyptians limb lengths.
It’s in a text book, on the page with ancient and modern limb lengths called ‘principles of human evolution’, based on the work of C Stringer ..page 92 of Stringer and Gamble (Stringer and Gamble, 1993, p. 92). I don’t have itr hand, but you can find the copied data here
So Yeah It’s pretty clear that the Ancient Egyptians were Indigenous Northeast Africans, AND THIS IS KEITA’S official stance
And you like to ignore that he uses this term to describe modern Egyptians. You also like to forget he mentions the migrations from Asia across Africa- he call people like this this including (modern white North Africans) native Africans.
Looking at your list of ‘references’ I’m fair falling of my chair. Have you actually read any of them or is this just a C&P from that Keita paper? I’m guessing you haven’t seen them. and the fact you mangle Keitas work so thoroughly shows you have zero interest in reporting what these studies actually say. But since I was actually asking what source you were quoting when you said the mummies had negroid skin colour…. nice try but I noticed you failed to back up that lie with any study.
BTW, plenty of over anthropologists have studied the Upper Egyptians, and it’s interesting that you are pretending that;
a. only Keitas work is valid (it’s probably the most flawed, he’s found Palestinian crania to be Nubian, disproved)
b. The Badarians are typical of all Egypt- since even Keita will tell you they weren’t quite tha same as tha later dynastic upper Egyptians, who had a lot of populaiton movement from North to south. Lower Egyptians show sod all affinities to black Africans, which is why you NEVER use the stiudies of them.
It’s amazing the lengths you’ll strecth your deception to. Keita actually said only some of the Paabo studies mummies had SOME sub Saharan mt DNA -not ‘the mummies had sub saharan dna’. Quite a lot of difference. The Kubaniya skelton share some features with Eurasian remains too.
You’ve also failed to prove any logical explanation as to how genetics studies have shown modern Egyptians are mainly native African for Y chr, and the Eurasian Y chr in North Africa mainly show a time depth of 8k or more. That you fail to grasp Keita includes white North Africans as indigenous Africans is bad enough, but you wouldn’t (couldn’t more likley) explain how Egyptians magically flipped from black to white with less than about 10% immigration from historical population movements.
)The population structure of those earliest M1 carriers were representative of the most recent of recent Africans. We’re discussing ancient paleolithic history, before the existence of “white skin” or the bulk of non-African diversity. M and N spawned all non-African populations and as such, are not exclusive to them and will be shared by the descendants of the original OOA migrants (who are African and share overall affinity with Africans). M1 is still found in isolation among some Africans without the burden of Asain-specific haplotypes and its highest diversity is in Africa. The M haplogroup its self has been in Africa before the OOA migration. M1 is a derivative of M so M1 is proof of African, not Asian ancestry no matter how you cut it
LMAO not one geneticist now would support an African origin of M1 (which is why you aren’t quoting any), no-one really supported N as African. Since there are about four published studies supporting M1 as Asain now, you’re out of luck. BTW, no example of M* has ever been found, and M1 shows the most diversity in NE africa. And that little thing about being found in populations ‘without the burden of Asian-specific haplotypes’ is bollocks as it’s Asian. It shows an entry into North Africa, and the M hg’s in India are WAY older than M1 and massively more diverse.
This is why I can’t be arsed to ‘debate’,you, if you don’t like something you pretend it says something other than it does or just claims ‘the scientists are wrong’ and come up with the weakest arguments around and think you are brilliant. Tragic really.
BTW, the back migration involving M1/U occured about 35k ago- the OOA event was about 120k (Skhul). The North African and near Eastern crania of that era look like robust Caucasoids with heavy brow ridges- and since they lived in Asia for about 70k there’s no reason to think they’d have black skin- their features were Cro Magnon like.
Entertaining. While I debate Afrocentrists a lot for many of the same reasons. I think you are caught in the same game as Afrocentrics. You attempt to perpetuate fictitious delimitations like “Caucasoid” and separate them from clinal variation down into Sub Saharan Africa as well as into the Levant and West into the Maghreb. You try to racialize Egyptians as much as Afrocentrics do. I still appreciate a lot of your research. I just take out your biased interpretations and usually the studies speak for themselves.
The Afrocentrics tend to over quote Keita as if he holds the supreme “evidence” on the ancient Egyptians. They only quote him because he, like them is an Afrocentrist and has distorted and manipulated his findings as you have pointed out numerous times on your blog.
If Egypt was a nation created and ruled by blacks, then in the very least we would expect to find more than just one or two negroid mummies that look like Maiherpri. Instead what we are finding is that the vast majority look like non-negroid white Caucasians. Afrocentrics will claim that the white Caucasian mummies are actually “black” due to “variation.” Again, if there is that wide a “variation” in the negroid race – so much that it can make their offspring look strikingly like white Caucasians, why aren’t they able to produce such offspring today? All this is, is an excuse to deny reality and to make oneself feel good, even if at the expense of historical fact.
…overlabelling is the bane of humanoid research, as overruling is of linguistics,
born to embroider should be branded
on cromag leather jackets as they hot it
down the information highway hanging onto monkey bars.
why is europe the center? well, take the
chatelperronian, 35k-29k, levallios cores
link neander/mousterian industry to chatel-
perronian, jewelry(firedrill industry)may have
been produced by neander(an indication of his
sophistication, why we have to prove it is a
measure of cromag stubs, that he, and only she
are the crowning achievement on glory road), and there is use of ivory. the two populations
overlap living space and tech, evidence solid
of neander/cromag cross, transfer of language through tech and the reverse. chatelperronian
surely led to gravettian, not maybe, and was
where neander and his crosses went, the only exit to europe, never gregarius as cromag, he
mobbed up with similar thinking cromags,
who were indebted to him for being prometheus
on all fronts: language, gods, music, tech, which
made them an elite hunting group. the cat skulls
on gravettian served as reminder that they came
from the caves of france and iberia, then most
likely crossed the atlantic to lay the solutrean
point under the clovis in america. that’s why
europe is prime. the evidence in nauatl’s
originating in the same area, the language we
use today all over the globe, the pie, began
there also, the twin font of cromag/neander
is still with us today, every breath we take,
every word we speak, every prayer we make.
Mr Man said: “M and N spawned all non-African populations and as such, are not exclusive to them and will be shared by the descendants of the original OOA migrants (who are African and share overall affinity with Africans).
No, the original OOA migrants had become separated from “Africans” long before they left. They did not resemble other Africans genetically, rather they are the ancestors of all “non-Africans”. A lot of Eurasian DNA back-migrated into Africa, but a lot of it never left.
Sorry, above link is wrong. Right one here.
As you can see from the correct link, NE Africans were those that migrated OOA. They were long separated from other African populations, and share ancestry with non-Africans more than they do with other Africans. So, no more of this generalized – non-distinct-“African” BS. There never was any such thing as one pan-mictic African population, any more than there is one generalized world population.
Mathilda you’re funny, See Mystery Solver’s destruction of Gonzalez et al…
The Complex and Diversified Mitochondrial Gene Pool of Berber Populations
C. Coudray1 , A. Olivieri2, A. Achilli2,3, M. Pala2, M. Melhaoui4, M. Cherkaoui5, F. El-Chennawi6, M. Kossmann7, A. Torroni2 and J. M. Dugoujon1
^New studies have found that M1 is isolated among the people of Siwa. It is not associated with any Asian lineages that is supposedly a tale-tell sign of an Asian origin, such as U6.
As far as your distortion of Keita, he clearly identifies the founders of ancient Egypt as African people. You are a hypocrite who not long ago admitted that Egyptians (namely Upper) are African. No, Keita isn’t the only anthropologist which is why I cited Zakrzewski who noted the Badarian as being similar to other Egyptians (as Irish confirmed as well through dental analysis) and Kemp who cites tropical body plans among the earliest lower Egyptians. Show me a modern lower Egyptian population who plot nearest to other Africans in terms the body plan. Egypt being a sub-tropical environment (“hot”) won’t cut it since their ratios are higher than that of west Africans who are closer to the equator!
So please stop it!
As far as the Y-Chromosome variation in North Africa going back to the Neolithic, you keep citing Bosch’s 2001 study who studies North Africans as a collective yet he was rebutted by Nebel 2002 who found his explanations unlikely (stating that a lot of the variation is attributable to the recent migration of “Arabian Tribes”).
“The frequency of the SLC24A5 111*A allele outside of Europe is largely accounted for by high frequencies in geographically proximate populations in northern Africa, the Middle East, and Pakistan (ranging from 62% to 100%).
The virtual absence of MATP 374*G–derived allele in the sub-Saharan African populations that we examined in the CEPH-Diversity Panel is consistent with the origin of this mutation outside of Africa after the divergence of modern Asians and Europeans. In contrast, the SLC24A5 111*A–derived allele is found at low frequencies in several sub-Saharan populations including the West African Mandenka and Yoruba, the Southern African San , and SouthWest Bantu. The relatively high frequencies of the derived allele in Central Asian, Middle Eastern, and North Africa seem likely to be due to gene flow with European populations. Similarly, the presence of the derived allele (albeit at low frequencies) in some sub-Saharan African populations may be due to recent gene flow from European and Central Asian populations.”
– From “Genetic Evidence for the Convergent Evolution of Light Skin in Europeans and
As these mutations are very recent (6,000 years by some estimates), so was the admixture scenario…
And Keita (2005) attributes the presence of J seen in relatively higher frequencies in Northern Egypt, to post Islamic genetic input.
Indigenous means indigenous. Black is a social label. The point is no matter the appearance, the Pn2 clade unites various African populations via common ancestry before any shares common ancestry with white people.
LMAO Mathilda are you serious with that study about Egyptian Limb lengths?
The study is called “Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: A new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature”..
The “Egyptian” group listed are ancient Egyptians! Show me where there is any mention of moderns..
Nice try though Mathilda! You thought you had a way to side step the fact that the Ancient Egyptians had Tropically Adapted body Plans, but well…..you don’t sorry.
“the scientists are wrong’ and come up with the weakest arguments around and think you are brilliant.”
Something a bit hypocritical coming from person who doesn’t believe in the Out of Africa theory, which is mainstream and backed by most Scientist.
“Materials and methods
In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin.”
Reference to this work by the German Institute for Archaeology can be found in the Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
Firrstly – LMAO at seeing that EA tragic blog entry YET AGAIN– where his entire argument is-‘ L3a is African’ so M1 is African.’ Totally blasting over that three others papers now support the Asian origin and not one geneticist now backs an African origin for M1. Just racist Afrocentrists trying to decontaminate East Africans of Eurasian ancestry.
Taking a look through the long list of bullshit- that limb length was of modern Egyptians- it was part of a list with other modern human populations and it’s pretty tragic of you to claim it’s ancient when it’s a study of modern populations (I wasn’t referring to Sonia’s paper knucklehead) – probably because it’s lethally damaging to your house of cards built with a pack of lies. Funniest was finding the chart altered on ‘peopling of the Nile valley’ l where Trinkaus’s chart was doctored to say ‘ancient Egyptian’, when there were only modern human groups on the chart. Same with Stringers numbers- all modern and showing modern Egyptians to have a tropical limb lengh. Boo hoo to you. It’s on this page and states clearly they are all MODERN populations compared to Neanderthals– with MODERN Egyptian limb lengths being as long as a black Americans. Modern Egyptians have a tropical limb lengths the same as ancient.
Egyptians are African- Keita repeatedly pouints out the modern Egypians are mainly native Africans- a point you would love to ignore. Many other authors also use African to describe Egyptians both ancient and modern. Keita also calls white north Africans ‘Africans’. He also isn’t the only anthropologist out there, the reounding result that comes back every time is- upper Egyptians mixed ancestry- Lower Egyptians mainly medirteranean which you skillfully swerve around by pretending the predynastic Badarian studies are the only ones that exist. Keita’s tropical African groups all have large amounts of Eurasian ancestry, and he describes (since he’s black and the only one you won’t disbelieve) lower Egyptians as between that (mixed ancestry) and european ; which describes modern Egyptians to a T.
I notice that you gloss over tha DNA studies frm Dakleh that found the mummy mt DNA as mainly Eurasian, with the modern population actually having a lot having more sub Saharan ancestry. Funny how that bit of info got lost.
I have just produced a page with all the DNA studies of Egypt- also funny how only about 18% of the paternal ancestry dates back to any historical population movement. Except of course the extra maternal black African DNA .
Nice try with the Nebel paper (funnily enough I read through it last night) – it only deal with the J HG for Y chromosomes. Yet an another example of the rampant dishonesty I’ve come to expect from you. You are full of bullshit- and since I’ve caught you lying twice in just one comment you are now banned…..
Something a bit hypocritical coming from person who doesn’t believe in the Out of Africa theory, which is mainstream and backed by most Scientist
I could actually come up with a list of practising anthropologists and geneticists that don’t support the pure OOA theory; some even read this blog, and I have quite a list of DNA studies that throw real doubt on it store here too.
Modern upper Egyptians can certainly come into the skin tone range required to be called negroid- notice the location of the tombs. However, siince I’ve caught you lying repeatedly and you’ve proved yourself to be a shameless liar- I don’t trust that this hasn’t also been ‘corrected’ by you.
As for the mutation for light skin tone- it’s at fixation in Europe but actually drops of pretty steeply- and it ONLY MAKES A MINOR CHANGE TO EUROPEAN SKIN- from Asian tan to pasty pink, not black to white- Northern native Americans lacked this mutation and other Neolithic lightening mutations.. It’s laughable that you think this makes much of a difference to the way Egyptians or Europeans looked prior to it, and other populations at the same latitude as Egypt in America aren’t black even lacking the SLC24A5 change. And a quick look at the distribution show it’s reached right into far northern Russia, so the odds are it was around in Dynastic Egypt, particularly looking at the way they depicted Arabs and Libyans.. And the general date is 8k for it’s appearance. So now you’re claiming that they were black but one mutation that makes only a minor difference to skin colour magically altered them from black native Africans into white Arabs. You are ridiculous. So is this wrangling about their exact skin tone or their racial ancestry? Because 100% Eurasians can have near black skins without being African.
Thank you so much for your hard work & interest in human history. I’ve only recently heard about the Gobekli Tepe site, -and now can’t get enough! I stumbled here looking for more info but found a whole other world here …in your blogs. I never knew how contentious archaeology can be.
This website and these posts have opened me for questioning “O.O.A.”. But my original quest was Gobekli. Have you or anyone else heard of any other updates? The more I research sites around …the more anatolia reads like a book. It’s amazing.
No- nothing about Gobelki lately. I do keep an ear out though.
…is that a sales chart? talking haplo is like riding a dead horse.linguistics does not support egyptians being afrikan, altho their servants might have been the majority of the population. gobekli holds the key to who the egyptians were, sun cult appears to have coalesced there from
beginnings further north, east and west,
believe i’d rather follow ideas, see where they come and go, than get all quartzy on plasma.
Mathilda why does it seems as though you stall on posting my responses. It’s like you hesitate to post my response until you can drum up your response and post it quickly after posting mines, Why is this?
Mathilda why does it seems as though you stall on posting my responses. It’s like you hesitate to post my response until you can drum up your response and post it quickly after posting mines, Why is this?
Because it’s the eatser holidays and my kids are home-I have a life and don’t usually spend my weekends on the internet. Don’t you have anything better to be doing on a Saturday than having your BS pointed out to you?
if we evolved from monkeys all the way up how come none of our species can be traced back farther than 55, 000 years to a women of African origin, mt DNA shows us that. not to say that min-kind all together originated out Africa but our species, homo erectus did. + there is no interbreeding with Cro-magnon and Neanderthals, their DNA is totally different than ours. what theory of evolution do u believe in anyways? Darwinian? and one more question do you believe in God?
Deep.. the DNA of our species has been sucessfully traced back to a common ancestor with chimpanzees about 7 m years ago.
Mitiochondrial Eve was more like 180k ago, not 55k. People were leaving Africa about 100k ago, and non African populaitons split off about 20-40k before that.
No, I’m not religious.
Firstly, I’m not an Afrocentist, but I get confused at the point you are attempting to make regarding the origins of the Ancient Egyptians. The ancient world (as described by reading various historic books) didn’t have or place importance in the issue of race. It is clear that there was no antipathy between the races intermingling. Logically, the Eurasians that would have arrived in Egypt before the pyramids were erected would have encountered the indegenous populace (likely black africans); because it’s fair say that the land was not vacant. Furthermore, you’re already aware that the Eurasian movement didn’t just stop in Egypt; but spread across North Africa (I read the DNA reports/discussions). Again, I postulate logically that the lands they would settle through migration was not vacant and they would have met indegenous people (like sub-saharan africans); because there were movements made to the north by Africans.
After thousands of years of racial mixing (and this is prior to the building of the pyramids)concentrated mainly in Lower Egypt and North Africa; is it possible the outward appearance (and I stress not their genetic composition) cannot be anything other than range from light-brown to brown; or dark brown depending on the depth of admixture. In today’s race-obsessed western society, the skin tones I’ve stated will never be described as European or Caucasian (though I appreciate that you have made clear that “Caucasian does not mean European”). The Ancient Egyptians, though not as dark as Nubians; or not as white as the Greeks saw themselves as unique; however by today’s description they would be labelled as “black”.
Take for example the former US General Colin Powell. He can draw on on his Scottish-Irish, Iroquois Indian heritage because he does not have the classical appearance of a negro, but the society that he was raised in has described him as “black”. You’re also aware of Barack Obama’s parentage yet the world has seen him as the 1st black US president.
The issue of race when referring to Ancient Egypt is unimportant because the legacy that they have left behind still continues to amaze the world. But, that said, there is a strong reluctance to give credence to the very idea that they were “black” by today’s generic term.
We know that children from modern day mixed marriages or unions from black african / white european will inherit genetic traits from both parents (a good example is where the offspring would have caucasoid facial features or maybe pass the negroid feature to the next generation because the genetics traits will not disappear)
It is a well known fact that the Russian Poet, Alexander Pushkin who was 25% black (his paternal father was white) exhibited negroid features and it was something he was proud of.
My point is that Egyptians are the same now (in appearance) as they were then. Roughly equal amounts of the population (20% total my guess) is comprised of black slaves from the Arab slave trade (mainly women) and Arabs that settled after the conquest. I went through the genetics studies with a fine tooth comb this week, and they are rather consistent in showing modern Egyptians are mainly not Arabs.
I’d like to point out the North Africans with minimal Arab and European input are still mainly not like black Africans (North Moroccan Berbers).
Let me have you views on the origins of Ancient Egyptians.
…gobekli begins organized sunworship:
the voracious phase where the sun needs sacrifice to keep tottering along(perfected
by the aztec papauaque/indigenous priests
who unite with nobles to elect the tlatoani/
sound familiar? el papa is spanish for the pope).
more than 50% of bird sacrifice was the
crow/cacalotl(N)/from, calli(N)=being, house.
raven/ r/l/tlatla-uentli(N)=flame offering.
a vulture with headless corpse. lizards in high
relief, which is number4 in booksouls, the sun’s
number/to-na(4)-tiuh. frogs and toads, jade
skirt the water goddess’s animal(suggesting
talismans for rain), she is 6th goddess of the
9night gods, 6 being the priestly number.
figure with head in hand
similar to that found at çatal huyuk, whose
goddess was tlazolteotl, her animal the ocelotl, a breeding station, trading settlement, bull-hunting culture right out of the caves, which were inhabited up to the first cities.
lion on stand with hole/tzol through its plinth
and 2 foxes in relief inside that, possibly a
stick(slang for forny). and lastly the double/
ome(N)=2walls of the circles/kirk/church,
the circle/kirk/church seating arrangement
miming the sun circle, yeah, sunworship.
as mentioned elsewhere, buzzard is 4×4=16,
its place in booksouls/tonalamatl(N),
the priest/scribes of the sun, as the later
b(r)itons/ pitona pitli tonatiuh(N)=older
sisters/priests of the sun were to become.
the word, stone (s)tone tonatiuh(N)=sun stone,
becomes the word, town, and is analogue
to the mayan, tun.
oh, ome/2 are the highest gods in the aztec pantheon, they’re a pair and
live in the 13th heaven. it’s an injection myth.
ome ço atl/cihuatl’s last child was tecpatl(N)/
flint, which stillborn, was thrown out to earth
by her normal children who thought her too
old for such foolishness, on landing tecpatl
broke into 400(20×20)pieces, each piece
a deity to rule over and be worshipped by
earthlings. this sterility myth is the basis
for papauaque/priestly celibacy on the
part of the aztecs, that the halloween version
(and halloween itself on the 2 continents)
of this stricture shows up in the catholic
church points to this myth being earlier
in the aztec version of sun worship than
whatever post-foundation myth the rcc uses
these days. a good paper for someone. let
me google to see if there is lit./tletl/letra
on the subject.
I’m glade you didn’t go to the site that this idiot wanted you to go too. This site use to be very good at one time, Now, It’s nothing more than the Jungle, Or should i say..EgyptsearchCrapsite. Their all on it now, You won’t believe the garbage these people are sending me. The Moderators are all gone , It’s a ZOE.
But, This Mr. man.
Typical racist, who always trying to deny us our rights. it’s funny, this is coming from the same people who cried about their own slavery and their freedom, a bunch of hypocrites they turned out to be.
Mr. man., there’s an” Angel” by the name mathilda37 , who come out to defend us, and our rights as human beings in this world.
Racist such as yourself, are trying to deny us of our history and the rights to our ancestors.
Mr. man, you should be ashamed of yourself , I wonder when you look into the mirror, does the man you see on the other side have any respect for you? I don’t think so.
Thank God, Or who ever is in the sky for mathilda37, I know my Ancestors, are smiling upon her and what she had to go through to stand up for us..
Thank you mathilda37, And I mean this from my heart. Your WORK will never be forgotten.
I hope my message went through!!!
…to jim kane, scranton.
no man is an island(john dunne). chichimecas/ichichiuh(itch/scratch)
metl(the century maguey plant) catl/beings=
the maguey scratchers, a high-plains amerindian,
paired off at 4 yrs of age, boy-girl were paired
and spent the rest of their lives together:
one died, usually the other died, life was so hard
then, it took 2/ome/(h)ome. the old gods are the 2/ome gods, when figurines have 2-eyes
on either side(4 in all), it means they are gods.
pairing is a hunter gatherer system, like the
buddy system in swimming, never go alone,
always have at least minimum 2. this is the nomad. the neander way was family and
groups of up to 20, whether they paired up
or not, the group came first. that goes back to 300k bc. because humanoids’s brains grew
so slowly and after birth, family/ pamily/
pamitl(N)=flag was inevitable, not like
gazelles who hit the ground running when
trust troth truth/tlatolli(N)=talk marks
the beginning of trust since its word root
is the word for word/talk=tlatolli, itoa oito,
oido/sp)=(h)ear=oir(sp). so whenever we learned to mime, i think neander learned first,
we were on our way to talk, as they say, one’s
word is one’s bond, or, talking people understand/hablando se entiende la gente(sp).
words woids oido oito itoa utter iterate are
more important for survival than weapons/
uipana(N)=calling people into line. if used
properly, we don’t have to go to war:
we can trust each other if we understand each other.
The advancement of dog domestication and the domestication of livestock from the nomadic hunter/gatherer turned nomadic herdsman that spread and settled in fertile areas for grazing gave rise to agricutral communities as well as war.
As to where and when those of the Aran races turned nomadic herdsman is my question as my resources are limited. According to “The Lincoln Library of essential information,” 1966, this took place east of the Danube, in the Late Stone Age about 10000BC.
Any info you are willing to share would be of great help in the origins of war dogs, which are actually herdsman dogs despite the history given by most cynologist who claim they are hunting dogs.
Thank you in advance.
Sorry, war dogs aren’t anything I’ve looked into.
nice site – found you under unknown script on stone
which i have – would you like to see a picture
kevin from michigan usa
Thank you. I have noticed the domestication of dogs is overlooked as compared to other livestock. A point to consider is, the nomadic hunter/gather that domesticated dogs also kept them for food. Food storage became the basis for war. The further domestication of livestock and war dogs go hand in hand. Livestock is simply the stock pile of live food. The area shown for the domestication of livestock may simply be as it was later known as a meeting place of trade by the nomadic herdsmen.
In his ‘The Golden Age of Persia’ of 1975, Richard Frye writes: One should not fail to mention Gurgan, ancient Hyrcania, a fertile provience to the east of the Capian Sea, where from ancient times settled Iranians had to defend their lands against nomads from the northern steppes.
If anything, can I interest you and others to consider this?
…take the legend of the ainu, that they were descended from a dog, a simple way of saying they worshipped venus, as its eveningstar version
is the dog, xolotl/clown, who leads the sun through the center of the earth. the xolotl was
eaten in mexican times, fattened on avocadoes,
if you ever meet one you know you’re not
dealing with a dog, the eyes are liquid amber
of the setting sun,
they look like a dober who was produced
as an experiment before they came up with man, not after man came up with dober,
it’s the only dog that cries real tears,
they have no canines, are vegetarians,
the human expression of their eyes is unsettling, they are great clowns when young, will not back down from a fight, yet approach a snarly
thoughtfully, are great guard dogs, and altho
wikipedia says they have no higher body temperature than normal, i can attest they do and were used by aztecs as hot water bottles for people who were ill. they are evidence of egyptian crossing to this hemisphere as their
pointed flop of ear duplicates that of anubis.
not all of them were used to guide the dead
to mictlan, only the brown or reddish ones,
for black cannot be seen in perpetual
night as red can, white is no good because
it takes on dirt, so only bermejo/vermilion.
as i’ve said elsewhere, dogs were domesticated
in china 8k bc, along with pigs and raised for
the table. dates for the domestication of the dog will continue to be pushed back as they are co-equals of ours in the hunt, all it takes is for
a hunting party of whatever millenium to capture pups. they are the centerfold of the
booksouls/tonalamatl at number 10, which is
the aztec warsign: hostilities were begun on one dog. it’s hard to date the booktones but there
is evidence of it in the lagar velho child burial
26k bc where deer and rabbit are present,
rabbit/tochtli(N)/ocho(sp) at number 8.
in the deer cult stretching back to 40k bc,
we get, ce uen tli= se ven=7, ven-i-son,
we may have had dogs then. the name,
xolotl morphs into the word, clow(n),
the verb from which the noun, xolotl,
is choloa(N)=flee, absent oneself, also,
coloa(N)=coil, cu(r)l, even cool(when cold,
a dog curls).
in deer culture dogs were usually not eaten,
unless the deer ran out. my site for earliest
dog domestication would be the far north
where everyone has to huddle together to
survive, even young fawns sleeping with
their human hosts.
as to war dogs the mastiffs are the oldest,
first dog to be raised exclusively on beef,
thus the name bulldog, that includes all
the square-faced breeds, great dane to boston
terrier. mastiffs are on the persian stone friezes
looking like lionesses, the romans use them and train them to haul their wounded masters from
the battle, even today a mastiff will jump
into his leash with an eagerness going back
2k yrs, a young adult mastiff when startled
is the fastest of all animals in explosive acceleration, covering 60 feet in a heartbeat
and capable of breaking his holder’s arm and
shoulder but usually the leash snaps first:
one holds the leash lightly with this dog.
hernan cortés brought several to mexico,
the most famous being, becerrito/the little
calf, he was the terror of aztec foot soldiers,
and perhaps why the ordinary mexican is
afraid of dogs to this day. they also can
short leap fences like horses, and have
a predilection for looking up as if to catch
sight of incoming arrow showers or lances
or stones from a ballista or rampart. quite a dog,
each one having their particular character,
the nobility of the big-boned warrior.
I am interested in finding out why you think the “out of Africa” theory of human evolution is wrong. What model of human evolution do you believe is more accurate. At present, most of the genetic evidence seems to favor a recent African origin of
What model of human evolution do you believe is more accurate.
‘Weak Eden’ technically. Which means mostly out of Africa about 100k ago with a little archaic homo added in.
I’ve seen conflicting reports for the DNA evidence. I’ve got multiple studies that support ancient DNA of a non African origin in modern Asians and Europeans. Also, when Paabo published the ‘there’s no evidence of Neanderthal interbreeding’ results he also said that neanderthals were within the normal humans range. My understanding of human males being what it is 😉 there’s no way they didn’t cosy up on at least a few occassions- men will molest fruit when lonely so the ugly red head from the tribe over the hill wouldn’t be beyond the realms of the possible.
After a fair bit of reading several modern human populations appear to have vanished without a trace after waves of immigration from other poeples. The Aterian north Africans, the Australoid Americans. Also, I bear in mind that while dominant groups can contribute a lot of DNA to oppressed groups (white Americans have 0.7% African, but black Americans are 22% European)any contribution from archaics could have been tiny. This would fit in with the fact that neanderthals started to gain modern human traits as they spent more time with us, but not vice versa. The very low introgression rates of oppressed modern human groups and the vanishing act of other modern but prehistoric humans would leave the door open to low levels of archaic ancestry in us.
But if Neanderthals and other archaics did contribute to modern human gene pool, their contribution has not been conclusively found, and if it exists, it is likely to be very small. That being the case, is the archaic contribution of any importance to modern human diversity.
One problem with the Neanderthal interbreeding theory is that the Neanderthals seemed to have maintained their distinct morphology, despite having lived alongside modern humans, possible for up to 15,000 years. Would this be possible if the two could interbreed. As you mentioned, in just 300 years, African Americans have 22% admixture, Cavalli-Sforza estimates that within the next 1000 years, there will be no genetic distinction between African Americans and European Americans. In Latin America, its much more significant, and gene exchange is in both directions between africans and europeans. This study of white brazilians found 29% had African mtDNA.
So North America seems to be an anomaly regarding oppressed groups. Back to the Neanderthals, as you mentioned, deprived males have little discretion in these matters. Is it possible that the Neanderthals and modern humans could have lived side by side for 5,000-15,000 years and maintained their distinctive morphology. Rather could there have been a genetic barrier to interbreeding.
The neanderthals started looking more and more like modern humans as they spent more time sharing territory- they called them ‘transitional’ nenaderthals and it can be hard to tell them apart from humans as they have chins, longer legs etc. Modern humans show occassional neanderthal traits like toe length and in cranial features ( there’s a Wolpoff paper on that on the blog somewhere).
The issue with the DNA studies is that some do show archaic ancestry an modern humans. I’ll dig out the links if you want
…genetic evidence is limited, wonderful tool,
tolerant in itself but not for its interpretors
it seems. toloa(N)=bow the head(tolerance),
door, so, haplos are doorways, small they are,
and if one does not bow the head to their
toolish limitations, one encounters dolorous(pun). ideas/itoa(N)/talk doesn’t follow
genetics, it’s the gift of teotl(N)/theother(E), from on high=piloa(N), or, as the finns have
it: alku(Fn), from, aco(N)/ago(E).
any intolerance when using a tool such as
haplo/genetics turns it into a hammer/
yamania(N)/yammer. so onward, let’s
tolerate each other, put pride and race/raza/
tlaza(N)=dash(throw down), and get on with
the task/tlaca(N)=body, of work, now row,
we’re all in the same galley/calli(N)=house/
the movement of ideas is traced by language.
its haplogroups are letters and they, too, have
time frames. the oldest language haplos are:
tl and tz. tks
hey my mate found a statue and its more then 5000 years old i need help to find the age and what it is will u plzz hit me back at my email… then i can send a pic.. he found it in the middle east… no one realy knows what it is other then its more then 5000 years old…
Sorry daniel- not my field.
…daniel, describe this wonder in your own words. the oldest things in that time span
i’ve seen are from the book, cyprus 5k bc,
and necklaces. i don’t want the picture.
That was beautiful. I have chills going up my spine. One of the traits of Alaunts (war dogs brought from Asia to Europe then to the Americas) is amber eyes. The prefered color patches is red/brown.
We actually believe the first Mastiff prototype to decend from North Asia, as well.
You are well educated on dogs as compared to most cynologist. I’m very impressed.
brucilo/the little calf (who was red/brown) was owned by Ponce de Leon who himself was killed in Florida by arrow. Many Conquistidors failed to concure in Florida, settlement was slow. St Augustine was established by Spain in 1565. The dogs brought by Spain actually are the base of our breed. Thank you, very nice, and very infomitive, as most know not the true origins of Mastiffs and Bulldogs.
i was curious to whether you could help me with an issue; my friend and i have been having an in-depth argument over albino’s eye color. He strongly opposes to my belief of albinos having blue eyes, not red. i know albinism is the lack of pigment in hair, skin, & eye color, and that blue contains the least amount of pigment (as appose to red); therefore, an albino must have blue eyes, correct? could you clarify whether most albinos have blue eyes, not red?
(excuse the lack of capitalization, etc.)
Some albinos do have blue eyes. African albinos in particular.
…pale blue to dark vi(o)let is the standard eye
color. ah, i don’t want to surprise anybody,
after all the hysteria/historia i’ve written on
neander, but i suspect i am a modified neander.
since a child i’ve had the neander temperament,
cautious, slow,the long thigh/light shank you’d expect from a neander cross, not a marathoner’s stride but explosive short range speed(the late
nuryeyev rudolf had similar legs and he
from ufa, the russian riverine)and springy
jumps, under 6 feet tall, green eyes, and
long torso slightly swayback. i was a good
baseball, soccer, hockey, fives(handball),
and now tennis(ugh)player with exceptional
hand-eye coordination. could it be?
my great grandmother, molly decourcy,
was a redhead and looked like a victorian
cave venus, my mother(molly was her
maternal grandmother, married an ellis
from northumberland)crossed with a
basque coffee planter’s son, lascoutx,
whose mother was a barceloneta and whose
real father was a swiss french, mabillard/
mabillòn=mapilli(N)=prince of the hand
(thumb). hold the tom thumb jokes until
i finish. i believe that puts me somewhere
in the vicinity of jean mabillón, french
benedictine, b. 23 nov 1632. i do not
claim him as a relation, but note that
my father was born, 22 nov 1922, and
that my strange affinity for language,
the birthing book of souls, and myth
fell into first gear when i discovered him
while entertaining the idea of going to paris
to study old language, and he’s been my
spiritual role model ever since. i think
it’s ok to choose an ancestor to follow
even if he may not be yours, no/yes?
Wolpoff and Trinkaus, still hold onto the multiregional theory, but they don’t have much support in the scientific community. Templeton does argue for archaic admixture, but that doesn’t have too much support either, especially since Templeton disputed the existence of Mitochondrial Eve.
It would be more comforting if modern humans did interbreed with Neanderthals, rather than be responsible for their demise. But, there is little evidence of any interbreeding, and the evidence that exists is far from convincing. Almost all fossils found are either clearly homo sapiens or clearly Neanderthal, despite having shared the same habitat for tens of thousands of years.
Mathilda, I very like your blog and thanks it I began to more interesting in anthropology and genetic.
Can you comment on the “indigeneous” peoples of India. Is there any evidence that suggests that the first Indians migrated into India from Africa via Egypt, Arabia? If not do you have an idea?
Also linguists have made corelations between India and Afria. Can you comment on that?
Not since the out of African event Mohit.
Dravidian is thought have links to Semitic which is Afro Asiatic- but there’s no link from Africa going to India. theres a third point in Tuerky/Iran that expanded out into both regions which is where the link comes from.
One of the older sea-bound boat yards was in Gujarat and almost unquestionably had contact with the east coast of Africa. Of course, this was 3500 BC and occurred with two already-developed civilizations in both places.
Some quotes for afrocentrists:
Count Uni – Governor of the South (ld Kingdom):
– “His majesty made war on the Asiatic Sand-Dwellers and his majesty made an army of many ten thousands: in the entire South . . . . among the Irthet Blacks, the Mazoi Blacks, the Yam Blacks, among the Wawat Blacks, among the Kau Blacks, and in the land of Temeh.”
This is an example of an Old Kingdom (2980-2475 BC) Pharaoh using thousands of Blacks as mercenaries: the army was sent into southern Palestine and “returned in safety after it had hacked up the land of the Sand-Dwellers.”
– “His majesty sent me to dig five canals in the South, and to make three cargo-boats and four row boats of Acacia wood of Wawat. Then the Black chiefs of Irthet, Waway, Yam and Mazoi drew timber therefore, and I did the whole in only one year. The Pharaoh came to inspect this work and at the coming of the king himself, standing behind the hill country, while the chiefs of Mazoi, Irthet and Wawat, did obeisance and gave great praise.”
A sandstone stela found in the sanctuary of Wadi Halfa contains an account of the Nubian expedition of Pharaoh Sesostris I, which carried this king’s wars to their southernmost limits. At the top of this stela there is a relief showing Sesostris I standing facing the Lord of Thebes, who says:
– “I have brought for thee all countries which are in Nubia, beneath thy feet.”
The inscription of Prince Amenim, which is carved into the stone in the doorway of his cliff-tomb in Benihasin, describes the Black lands as “vile.” It reads as follows (“Kush” was one of the Black lands) :
– “I passed Kush sailing southward, … then his majesty returned in safety having overthrown his enemies in Kush the vile.”
The inscription on the stela of Sihathor, an “Assistant Treasurer” is now to be found in the British Museum., reads as follows:
“I reached Nubia of the Blacks, … I forced the Nubian chiefs to wash gold.”
The first Semneh stela inscription recounting the subjugation of Nubia by Sesostris III reads as follows:
– “Southern boundary, made in the year 8, under the majesty of the king of Upper and Lower Egypt, Sesostris III, … in order to prevent that any Black should cross it, by water or by land, with a ship, or any herds of the Blacks; except a Black who shall come to do trading in Iken, or with a commission. Every good thing shall be done with them but without allowing a ship of the Blacks to pass by Heh, going down stream, forever.”
The inscription of Ahmose (blacks like to say that he was blac) reads:
– “Now after his majesty had slain the Asiatics, he ascended the river…to destroy the Nubian Troglodytes; his majesty made a great slaughter among them.”
The Tombos Stela of Thutmose I reads:
– “He hath overthrown the chief of the Nubians; the Black is helpless, defenseless, in his grasp. He hath united the boundaries of his two sides, there is not a remnant among the curly-haired, who came to attack; there is not a single survivor among them…They fall by the sword…the fragments cut from them are too much for the birds.”
In the annals of the great warrior king, Thutmose III, at the sixth Karnak pylon, there is a list that contains no less than 115 of the names of the towns and districts of the conquered Nubian regions.
Another pylon at Karnak contains possibly four hundred towns, districts, and countries conquered in Nubia. Inscribed on a black granite tablet Karnak is the famous “Hymn of Victory” which reads as follows:
– “I have bound together the Nubian Troglodytes by the tens of thousands. The northerners by hundreds of thousands as prisoners.”
Stela of Amenhotep III, now to be found in the British Museum in London. It reads as follows:
– “List of the captivity which his majesty took in the land of Ibbet the wretched.”
List of Prisoners and Killed
Living Blacks 150 heads
Archers 110 heads
Female Blacks 250 heads
Servants of the Blacks 55 heads
Their children 175 heads
Total 740 heads
Hands thereof 312
United with the living heads 1,052 ”
By the way blacks say Amenhotep II was black ;).
So, what do afroncetrist now?
The mistake, right should be: “By the way blacks say Amenhotep III was black ;)”
…i have turtle/ayotl neander at mt. ca(r)mel/
camileua(N)=yellow up, fructify/ca(r)mel(Heb/
tepeua)=fruitful, at 100k bc, out of their eurocaves, possibly from their turko-caves.
afrika is by passed completely as matilda
has said, being a biologic source and not a
cultural one. then the gobekli sunworship,
hunter-gather and dispersal, the other cemitta(N), the arabaitan(OHG)arabs were further
east than now, they did at much later date go into india to give them, 7c ad, kings.
the black hole we don’t take into account is
the influence of the altai mts, where gold and silver, were washed=altia(N/rev of atl)=bathe,
for the first time. the altai area acted as a
financial magnet/sphere for the silk trail,
whose tendrils, just like the 49’s goldrush,
attracted the cupidity, not just of a country
but, of nations and peoples all along the
most famous trade route of history and
helped shape culture, language, and the
destinys of its participants. afrika did not
offer that, at that time, to its shareholders,
except for egypt, which altho on the
northeast corner of the dark continent,
was on the southwestern corner of the
silk trail sphere, the gateway through
which trade/culture poured into the nile.
This particular study
“It seems unlikely that Neanderthals contributed any substantial fraction of modern variation”
Basically, the authors argue against claims of Neanderthal introgression. They base their findings on both mtDNA and nuclear genes such as mc1r.
I have followed your discourse with various groups, particularly the Afrocentric camp. I thought I should pass you this article which.
Volume 16 Issue s1, Pages 47 – 47
Published Online: 8 Sep 2006
Journal compilation © 2009 British Blood Transfusion Society
An international journal published for the British Blood Transfusion Society
British Blood Transfusion Society
Characteristics of HLA Class I and Class II Antigens of the Somali Population
HLA antigens of the Somali population are not categorised as well as those of other international ethnic groups. We analysed the HLA antigens of 76 unrelated Somalis who lived in the west of England. HLA -A, -B, -C and DRB1 typing was performed by polymerase chain reaction using sequence-specific oligonucleotide probes (PCR-SSOP) at a low-intermediate resolution level. Phenotype frequency, gene frequency and haplotype frequency were used to study the relationship between Somalis and other relevant populations. The antigens with highest frequencies were HLA -A1, A2, and A30; B7, B51 and B39; Cw7, Cw16, Cw17, Cw15 and Cw18; DR 13, DR17, DR8 and DR1. HLA haplotypes with high significance and characteristics of the Somali population are B7-Cw7, B39-Cw12, B51-Cw16, B57-Cw18. The result of HLA class I and class II antigen frequencies show that the Somali population appear more similar to Arab or Caucasoid than to African populations. The results are consistent with hypothesis, supported by cultural and historical evidence, of common origin of the Somali population. This study will serve as a reference for further anthropological studies, as well as studies of associations between HLA and disease.
Thank you Madar. Intersting
…thinking about neander and ivory/ma(r)fil/
powerful(cf., etymology on galatia’s chess,
goddesses, and the kitchen sink, or here
somewhere), that neander used ivory to
strengthen and change his thumb, of course,
neander crosses who inherited better thumbs
would be marked for survival if not deity.
the more myth is decoded, the more
it looks a is if gods lived, e.g., tlatlatzolteotl
at zatal huyuk, lady birdsnake of belgrade
(hecate/ehecatl, weaving goddess and venus),
even zeus, aryan sky god first known to greeks
as a snake(his lower nature plowing through
europa), would say he is of teutonic origin
out of the venus worship there, being birdsnake, and his dad chronus, who ended up in britain
flaking flint with older sisters of the sun=
pitli tonatiuh(N)/pitona bitona b(r)iton(letra).
chronus comus cosmo comoni(N)=firedrill
breakfast fire(commotion of the cosmos
comedy). by the way, matilda, anymore
on the papanatas(sp)=ninny to irate science
puffin debate on neander in england, or were
you just angling for reaction. let me know,
if you’re not too busy. tks, the hornpout.
Greetings! I stumbled upon your site while researching my ancestors. I have connections to the Beothuk and Mi’kmaq and had my mtDNA done and have an exact match to Demasduit. I am a 58 yr old woman whose Grandfather was Joe Toney (Micmac) and his mother was Santu, who claimed to be Beothuk. Years ago I contacted University professors in Newfoundland who seem to discredit what I tell them. My mtDNA of course if through the maternal line and my grandfather, who died in 1960, married my grandmother who never talked about her family, nor did he. My maternal grandmother was born 1896 and was my grandfathers second wife, his first wife died while giving birth. What can u tell me about the “extinction of Beothuk Indians” and the fact descendants still exist? Just curious because our people should be studied today while we can tell the professors what is happening to us and why, which is; extinction of all aboriginal nations as set out in law ie; the Indian Act.
Thank you, Ardy
Hi, Everyone seems to be preoccupied with relatively minor details such as skin color etc, and also the OOA supporters seem to ignore many obvious features of modern populations which I think demonstrate quite clearly the fact that many archaic features remain in modern Europeans. Skeletons, for example, vary between linear thin boned types, with no brow ridge, and at the other extreme, thick boned types with a prominent brow ridge. To use myself as an example, I have a pronounced brow ridge which is continuous above my nose, a large cranial capacity, thick arms with curved radii and ulni, and large hands with very thick relatively short finger bones just like a Neanderthal. I also once knew a man who looked,facially, quite gorilloid, as well as having similar skeletal features to myself.There may be one not very obvious reason that the OOA proponents have found no evidence of Neanderthal admixture; they may have simply selected individuals with small bones and smooth skulls, because people with archaic skeletal features are less common, or because they wanted to bias their results in favor of their hypothesis. Also, if cross breeding involved, for some reason only Neanderthal males and more modern females, mitochondrial DNA presumably would not show any Neanderthal sequences as mitochondrial DNA is transmitted only via females. I am inclined to believe that, if more archaic looking people were sampled, the results would be quite different. Regards, Rob Johnston.
This site is very interesting and I have recently come to take a large and particular interest into the different racial backgrounds and the skull types of each race. Can’t wait to get a cheek swab DNA test to see where my ancestors come from both paternally and maternally .
I am of Indian origin (North)but come from East Africa (Kenya), dont think I have any sub-saharan bloodline as my parents ( both paternal and maternal) are born in Kenya and dont look black. Further more, I came to learn that my maternal grandfather was born in Kenya too although, my maternal grandmother is from India and has a broad nose with no nasal sill
(could she have an african origin with that sort of flat broad nose? or is it an australoid skull feature? )
Furthermore, my paternal grandparents moved to Kenya in the 1940’s way before it became an independent nation ( 23 years earlier) but also came from India (by birth).
I have a small but high nose with bone structure. A rounded skull and big eyes ( large eye sockets). Am I a caucasoid skull type like other north Indians? or could I have admixture of other races that have given me my skull shape? I dont know, I think its caucasoid since its not flat nosed.
Again visually, people dont think I look fully indian and confuse me as south american latino or black/asian mixed race,as I have thick lips. I also have long eyelashes. My hair are not frizzy in any way and looks straight but is thick. So maybe you could help??
Also, are DNA tests that are taken through cheek swabs that accurate? or do I need some sort of a blood DNA test done instead??
Thanks for your help,
Also, are DNA tests that are taken through cheek swabs that accurate? or do I need some sort of a blood DNA test done instead??
yes, most postal services work that way.
Anything could be lurking in your family history- but a lot of Indians do show similar traits to East Africans and sometimes it’s hard to tell some of the Southern Indians from African at a glance. Realy you’d need a very thourough DNA study to dig out your complete ancestry.
I’m Giulia from Italy.I know that I’m really going off topic with this comment, but I’ve found your blog for a really luky circumstance(sorry for my orrible english) and I’m really impressed.I’m 17 and I really want to study Anthropology at university(I’ve 2 more years of high school) because is really somenthing that always interest me,and not only interest.It really “catch my mind”.So I’m reading your blog and I’m amezingly happy to do it and I really want to thank you for it.
Ciao from Italy
Giulia,one of your admiror(sorry again for my bad english)
…so, euro deer tribes moving east to the
altai taking their 50k bc haplo and language
with them, squeezed out of the european
cul-de-sac by glaciation, going south to
the sahara rim which is rainy, not snow, and moving east along the top of the dark continent,
then crossing into the levant above arabia feliz,
which is also green grazing for the herds,
some lodging in the caucasus, but if they
are following deer/mazatl(N/7), the mazyes
continue on, along with other deer folk,
and meeting some deer people that are heading
east, hmmm, perhaps,
these euro-deer people/mazyes are the
original deer tribe who then pass their
way of life to the even/evenki, nooo,
deer culture was a survival mechansm
forced on all the hunter-gatherers the
length of the northern eurasian crescent,
their only means of survival, is more
like it, but in some way they link up
near the altai/altia mts, perhaps a
pop explosion nomadka(N)/nomad
style presses them into a loose
confederation that creates formal
relations between tribes having
to do with roaming rights. hmmm,
whatever the case, nauatl gets to
the east and eurasia comes under
the spell of a formal language,
that includes the new/old sound
(r). and then the return journey
where by 30k bc, the mazyes are in
the caucasus mts they passed on
their way out, following the green
beltway, decide they like the climate,
jump animal from deer to sheep,
as climate gets drier,
e.g., oveja(sp)=ouica(N)=with difficulty,
going from hunter-gather
to settle/cetilia(N)=get back(unite/ce).
hmmm, the primordial journey of
the silk trail first made by deer people
going east to the altai/altin(turk)=gold/
altzairu(basque, another people who
went east, but to bithynia, but in 5ok bc
the religious connotations of deer
cult and the reverential of atl/water=
altia/altar, cannot be ignored for
deer cult gives us the number/7=
ce uena(N)=one offering, words like,
serve, serf, divine/ d/te uena=
the offering, makes deer/deor(OE)/
teotl(N)=god, so the seed of service,
offering and slavery from deer cult are
focused in the altai, a major modern
shift to human thought created by
the unifying effect of deer/mazatl/7,
here, in the altai, it can be said
that the religion, the unity, and
the way of life that we have today
became recognizable and the grace
was born in the triangle between
china, russia, and mongolia
that blossomed even-tually(deer pun)
into the formal architectural statements
of gobekli, zatal hoyuk, sumer, and
the wonder of egypt.
of course, mazatl/deer is the animal of the rain
god, tlaloc, who is inextricably linked to
sun worship, sharing a pyramid
with the sungod/wargod,
deer direction west,
on the womanside quadrant, ciuatlampa,
leading off with calli(N)=house/being,
number 3/tonalamatl/the sunpapers,
man/woman’s first home architecture,
the yu(r)t/yuhti(N)=from the beginning,
just, justice, and jude without the hebrew,
perhaps, rudolf. we are all deer people,
except for the bears.
…hi, matilda, please feel free to use any of
my material anywhere you like anytime
you like, anyhow you like, except in the jakes,
i know that too is carte blanche, but only
in emergency, ok? regards, carlos.
…hmmm, i forgot to ask bear if he was
a deer person, yes, the answer is, yes,
he and mama bear and baby bear like deer too.
so it’s unamimous(pun), all we animals like deer.
Terrific site. Like a lot of your comments. I just got back my deep clade, which is E1b1b1a2* or E-V13*. I understand this may be Greek (non-Slavic) or possibly Jewish. Can you shed any light on this? There were a couple Sephardic matches but the rest were many Balkans. Thanks!
Paul -Ev13 is pretty specific to the Balkans area with a lttle in the near East.
…40k bc mammoth 3-hole ivory flute found geissen klosterle cave near
nearby hohle fels cave,
2 5-hole birdbone flute from mute swan
wingbones, 35k bc.
8.5″ griffon vulture birdbone flute, mouthpiece
2 v-shaped notches with 4/naui fine lines
near each finger hole, hmmm,
10k before neander leaves europe.
long time to amuse/amoxtli(N)=book,
the later meaning, but first (a)muse
is song/ceol(cel/ocelotl)=ce ollin(N)=
song one and holy/ollin/rollo(sp)=roll
with tlatlaca(flame beings) t/la(n)ca
t/da(n)ca(flame dancers) with flutes
birdbone, whence flute?
ah, captured birds, how, mixitl(N)=
the senses, to limn, hmmm, strong
mn/nauatl label, li(mn)? bird in
spanish=pájaro, ah, pauia(N)=
chew for another(bird?), oh,
next paul on the line, pauilia(N)=
bait for fish, for bird, yeah, that’s
it, so, to paul a bird verb. flute?
ah, flauta(pg)= f/pau/ta(letra),
first 3 letters of pau-uilia, what
happens next, ah, insert (l)=
plau/flau, then, -uilia (l/t)=
uit/lia, drop both (i’s)=
flauta, whew, ok. letra can
be a tricky bird to branch.
now we know what happened
in the altia/altai at 42k bc and
all over eurasia, the rock concert
of nauatl song and naua dance
spread like wildfire over both
continents baking the pie whose
ingredients were all-tongues
and are the languages we have today
on blue planet. what moved early euros
to music? birth, the birth of the blues,
reds and rainbows of soul music, and
the salty young soul learning to dance
with the cosmos hanging around her
neck with young gods clapping time.
ecstasy arrives at the big altar of beauty,
to pave the way later for hedy lamarr’s
spread-spectrum hollywood career.
Hi Mathilda, Can I please ask as to why you have deleted my comment that was posted above?. If you do not have the sufficient resources to answer my question, please state, so I can accept that as a reason.
I thought you could help but I am having doubts???
Didn’t delete it, I haven’t been on the blog for a LONG time and I just haven’t cleared it through.
…to jim kane, noma/nomatca/nomatzinco(N)=
nomad, relates to deer/mazatl only, and arises
when we have the matlatl(N)=nets to capture
and tame them, what we are also taming is
religion, giving it its first words: 7, serve,
divine. the locus/tloc(N) for all this is north
eurasia, we start piling up teteo(N)=deitys
e.g., deer deor teotl, tree treow teotl, and
we begin to use trees for rope and snares,
have milk and a horse=umaa(ainu)uma(Jap)
mare(E)=mazatl(N/day7souls). this begins
about 50k bc. because of euro-glaciation
the tribes move east to the altai/altia(N)/
altar mts the turks say is their origin.
dance as language begins, architecture
and church= ch/y ur t/ch. before that we
live on the littorals in caves carved by the sea,
walk the beaches from whence we arose ,
move inland to altepetl(N)=
river is below and hunt with the ocelotl,
later our birthing animal, do some scavenging,
then slowly work up the family arsenal,
living in small groups until we develop
the cohesion of language for larger groups.
an early example of this is turtle neander
in mt. carmel/camiliui(N)=ripen/yellow,
where diet was 40% ayotl(N)=turtle,
hobson-jobson has ayotl/ayuthi=judea,
but the group was so small it had no
effect on the snappers, but, ayotli(N)=
squash, neander may be planting,
in the painted caves of iberia/france
we were able to live in larger groups
as they do in europe today,
developing hunting strategys like cliff
kills rivaling the chicago stockyards.
this large scale participation in the hunt
maybe what developed the first wisps of
nauatl, because for language one has to
cooperate, as i am beginning to find out.
Mathilda I red Egyptians are descents of Dravidians who belong among black race. I am afraid I have not time to search all informations in your blog and net all. Could you tell me your idea on this problem or recommend me som links? Thanks.
I red Egyptians are descents of Dravidians
Dravidians are from India, and there’s no evidence of any near historical movement from India into Africa.
Cro-Mags came from Russia. Not Africa.
I am not an expert in this fiekd, just a curious person who loves to learn. I just wanted to clarify the comments of someone above who stated that the Momons purport that the Lost Tribes of Israel awer the only inhabitnts of the Americas. Many of the early curch members, in their limited understanding probably did come to that conclusion but The Church if Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has tried to clarify. That by makinhg it known that the. Individuals in The Book of Mormon are only AMONG the ancestors of moder Native Americans.
It is documented that there was definitely travel to and from N/S America in Pre-Columbian times. Even examples where Egyptian mummies were entombed with Cocaine, tobacco and marijuanana which are all indiginous to America. The Mormons don’t claim tthat every Native American is “the Lost Tribes”.
…cromags are mtDNA haplo group N,
found in the mideast, n.africa, and
central asia(the altia/altai mts/the altar).
they lived alongside neander 60k yrs in
the levant, and for 15k yrs in the dordogne/
southeast france, 10k yrs on the ebro/iberia, they are thought to have developed one of the first calendars 15k
bc, but the date can be pushed back to the
lagar velho child burial at 26k bc, and to
the chauvet pont d’arc cave, 35k bc where
there are calendric groupings, of felines/71,
all animals 420=20×20&20, the amerindian
venus calendar answers these specifications,
brought over by quetzalcoatl, 3309bc, or,
5k bpe, 72 is the number of times the 260
day birthing calendar goes into a 52yr solar
period of 360, the feline/ocelotl is animal
of the cave venus who is regent of the calendar,
tlatla tzol teotl, birthing and firedrill goddess.
her drill used 2 different pieces of wood, one
spun into the other, the flute was born from
this process, as bellows, and the twirling of
the stick may have given rise to the bow
and arrow, neander had this capability,
the wear on neander teeth/tlantli/totlan=
tooth/tlan was from holding the flute bellows,
and flute itself=f/p(l)otli/te(letra)=both,
companion to the fire drill. tlantli(N)=
tl/t/th/hand/t/tli(letra)=the english word
for hand, in this case the third hand.
the latin word, mano, from ma(N/verb)=hunt
sea/land with net=man(E)…so cromag
is not out of afrika, but not out of russia
either, he gets firedrill from the dorgogne/
chauvet caves/iberia also, then according
to his haplo N/nauatl goes nomad at 50k,
stopping in the levant, using the north afrikan
corridor out of glacial europe, and reaches
the altai where deer culture and vestiges of
today’s religions appear based on animal
husbandry of deer, sheep, and later horse,
with deer being first horse, first offering,
first ce uentli/ c/se-ven/uen/when/venison.
what’s going on in russia at that time is fishing,
riverine bear/deer culture, tree worship,
log canoes(chipeua(N)=chipships), and interaction with neanders.
the deer and cromag thumbs
combine with wendy’s antlers to give
pressure flaking techniques which result
in quicker and better production of flint/
obsidian hunting tools, and we get to the
early stages of preparing tech for the
gravettian mammoth period. by this time
we have neander crosses, chronus was the
youngest and last neander,
the message was promethean,
zeus a neander cross,
the patricidal war that ensued drives
a neander remnant east to the british isles,
c. 30k bc.
the deer culture people, like the
turks, dukha, tzaatan/mazatlan peoples
stop hunting and settle, the life of the
noma/nomatca/nomatzinco ceases to
be about strength and becomes service,
milking the herd, neander’s heroic hunting
exploits and strength are no longer needed,
the rodeo doesn’t quite end there as the
gravettian, 22k bc, is the last great round-up
of that hunting style until the amerindian
buffalo shoot which was no more than a massacre/maza/mazatl(N).
as to the egyptians being dravidian, one has
to take into account gobekli, the mortuary
where slavery, the birth of statistics,
cipher began citys, 11k bc, and weigh where
the nile stood in the mythology of the area,
it appears to be, (N)ile=tlil(N)=black,=
lethe, the river of death, to the west in
the mytholgy of the sphere which extanded
from the eastern altar of the altai mts all
the way to the rim of the mediterranean,
this may explain why egypt centered so
on the death cult, it was the western rim of
the known world, at least that inhabited
by what was later to be the global force,
one is reminded of the 2.5k bc diaspora
from the altai, when the tribes spread to
every corner of eurasia in an evangelical
wave, not unlike the colonial pulse that
awoke the amerindian hemisphere. so,
to say that egypt was dravidian is to miss
the entire religious event that was deer
culture, the entire service so to speak,
and to ignore the actual realm that had
existed since 50k bc all the way down to
3k bc, the beginning of egypt, with
the hunter-gatherer/agriculture divide
of gobekli along the route, and that realm,
that one world/cemanauac(N) went from
egypt in the west to the altai mts in the east,
afrika, europe, and india were depots of
that vitality and drew their strengths from
it accordingly, but it was egypt whose gaze
was fixed on the east, in mourning and in
reverence at the arrival of their one god.
…since gobekli, near eden, 11k bc, the bible
has a time line. gobekli is the last great hunter-
gatherer convention before cities, before
agriculture, and that enshrined the means
by which cities would be build, slavery.
at gobekli, the priestly class learned by
means of their idols to organize and manage
large groups of people. their demise may be
a reflexion of the garden of eden story,
a lush paradise where food and wildlife
were for the taking, however when climate change and population pressure impose
themselves, a steady supply of food is required.
without agriculture, the sweat of one’s brow,
eden/gobekli cannot exist, and the angel
appears at the gate with sword.
it appears the oldest story in the bible
refers to this time, and so was redacted
from that time forward if you like. as to
the lost tribe of israel/yizrael=yectlalli(N)=
the good land, it can be established through
words such as, matzoh/mazeltov=
mazatl toptli(N)=deer idol, that they are
nomad deer tribe people whose origin
goes back to the 50k bc when all that began.
the berber/masyes were part of that also.
have a look at, the 13th tribe, by arthur
koestler, it relates to present day tribal
doings, and israel’s connection to russia,
and the turkish horse tribes that came
out of the deer culture in the altai,
specifically the khazars, who converted
en masse to judaism and kept the awakening
arab hordes out of europe in 7c ad.
I do not know where you get the idea mathilda that lower nubians in late ancient times and later were 60% euroasian.
first of all to make it clear most or all lower nubians were unmixed black africans before very late ancient times.
Mixing with outsiders happen in a larger scale only when rome took over egypt .greeks and others came in to lower nubia to live.
most of these lower nubians became mixed race during this time but they were not kushite nubians,they were the noba that came to lower nubia to live. these noba were called the red noba by the axumite king who conqured parts of nubia for a very short time.
THE noba that did not mixed with other racial groups in lower nubia was called the black noba.
IN THE OTHER REGIONS of nubia they were just called the black noba as well.
A WEBSITE THAT TALKS about these topics that i go to from time to time is called egyptsearch dot com.
check it out.
BY THE WAY humans came from africa,and most egyptians of the past were black africans.
Great blog. Thanks for presenting anthropology in an unbiased way. Just pure facts, no politics.
Mace, East Africans are abotu 40% Eurasian- that Nubians living a few mile north were mixed too isn’t a shocker. BT, a lot of the Eurasian DNA in East And North Africa arrived about 40k ago, then more 10k ago and 8k ago- so no Nubians weren’t ‘pure unmixed’ black Africans.
Anyone who wants a laugh at people who try to pretend Egyptians were all pure black Africans- do go to Egyptsearch for a giggle.
…the eurasian dna of 10k ago in afrika east
and north would be the bow wave of the
gobekli collapse, 8k bc, which must have been caused by drier climate, north and east afrika
must have been wetter.
Yes, there’s a kind of snail eating culture you see spread out across the southern med across North Africa from the east about that date that matches the Capsian.
What a wonderfully fascinating blog! I’m really enjoying it. How lucky we are that you share your knowledge with us. Thank you.
Mathilda, I love your blog I read it regularly it’s good to see other women caring so much abt this field, especially those not in the academic world but those who are following their own nose and ideas.I fully support so much of what you put forth.
What dissapoints me is your narrow eurocentrism.Which is to be expected… people cannot be objective when it comes to things like their personal ancestry, they feel solely connected to their race by blood I’m guilty of it myself we cannot see the others value.The crow wishes everything was black, the owl that everything was white.
Your complete disregard for the african aspects of egyptian culture is saddening,you will find more true connections with africa in egypt then you will ever find with greater europe or britain.It’s shocking to see how much europeans feel they “own” egypt and how much in turn they disregard their own indigenous european history in favour of it.
Your complete disregard for the african aspects of egyptian culture is saddening
That would be why I point out Lower Nubians and predynastic upper Egyptians were one culture with ties to Nilo Saharan Groups, and why I routinely point out about 1/7 overall (and about 1/3) of upper Egyptian DNA was sub Saharan.
All DNA etc has shown modern Egyptians (who aren’t white , but are pretty brownish) are the same population then as now- a point I constantly hammer home.
will find more true connections with africa in egypt then you will ever find with greater europe or britain
As I am quite sick of pointing out, I’ve never claimed Egypt had anything to do with Europeans. They have been as they are in North Africa, pretty much the same, for the last 8,000 years. What’s most perplexing is why you think I claim they were from white Europeans (never once said this) or why Black Americans feel the need to lay claim to a culture which has bugger all to do with them.
I’m just studying it, not pretending I own it.
Hi Mathilda, there’s an article about the colonisation of the Canary Islands here (abstract only): http://www.saharajournal.com/20/pages/abs_20.html#p83 and a piece of news about it (in Spanish) here: http://www.abc.es/agencias/noticia.asp?noticia=100276. In short, after studying the inscriptions in the Canary Islands, they say they may have been colonised by Berbers in two waves, 6th century BC and 1st century AD. I didn’t know where to put this but I thought you might find it interesting. Keep up the good work!
Thought I’d share some of what I’ve read about a possible linkage between Polynesia and the Channel Islands/Santa Barbara in SoCal.
Appears to be fairly recent though, and will not explain the Palo Verde find….
Of interest is that I had one friend who was from Taiwanese aboriginal origin (with a flat nose that made me think he had African origin), and another friend from Malaysia who looked 100% like an Australian aboriginee …
your independent thinking is refreshing. consider this: why must we all be one species with races. it may be we are many species. All ‘races” following the realization of farming collected near riivers in to cities and then nations, formed languages and culture. the black did not. It could be he was physically superior and farming did not apreciably improve his life. Ability to reproduce is nothing . We have five species of babboon in africa thst have very minor differences yet reproduce and the world has 20 species of panther that couldf cross breed. “One speciers” may be a religious convenience and not science.
no doubt you know this poem by Edward Lear. My mother often read it to me although my name is Helen. I was looking up ‘neanderthal Cesme’ when I came across your interesting blog. I live in Cesme, near Izmir.
But today, at the risk of boring you I want to recite my mother’s goodnight reading to me:
‘Mathilda told such dreadful lies
it made one gasp and stretch ones eyes.
Her aunt, who from her earliest youth
had held a strict regard for truth,
attempted to believe Mathilda,
the effort very nearly killed her.’…..
Although an architect and historian I am interested in a lot of topics that figure on your blog such as mitochondrial, y chromosomes, neanderthalis and homo sapiens, but especially in urban settlements around here in Turkey.
Hope to here from you.
I don’t understand exactly why you think “OOA” is so profoundly wrong. I can understand doubting it, and certainly your “weak eden” hypothesis and not proclaim some broad multiregional theory, but your claims about it not being widely accepted are, well, garbage.
The vast majority of the scientific community believes we evolved in africa, albeit there’s a considerable amount of debate on the issue of archaic admixture after we left africa. You’re extreme to proclaim studies supposedly showing ancient admixture are so “definitive” as well.
Plus, your theories about as to why people are opposed to hybrid-origin theories, being due to religious reasons, are, well idiotic. This ignores how it’s only really in the US, in the developed world, where religious fundamentalism is so prominent. Countries where it’s less so show little divergence from these views.
I mean… what the hell, what kind of theorizing is that? Most people in the US don’t even believe in evolution, how would OOA be more comforting to them? Many scientists also oppose hybrid origin theories on other grounds as well- IE, the sort of ramifications if it was proved we have non-human admixture in us, and thus, aren’t fully human. Along with how hybrid-origin theorists seem to act as if the mental capabilities of neanderthals and humans are wholly interchangeable.
It’s largely accepted that neanderthals were non-sapient. I can’t think of anyone, and haven’t seen anyone, that’s argued h. erectus was sapient.
I don’t understand exactly why you think “OOA” is so profoundly wrong.
Presumably since the recent DNA study has now proved that multiregionalism is correct and that we have Neanderthal ancestry, I don’t have to gear up a long answer that one
Does exist a material about Rh factor of Egyptians mummies? Thanks.
Does exist a material about Rh factor of Egyptians mummies? Thanks
I don’t know, some work has been done on the blood factors but I’m not very familiar with it.
Hello! I have a few questions, but before I ask, I must say I love your blog, it’s very very very informative. On to the questions, I’m not considered an afrocentrist (at least not a mudslinging close minded one) but I have questions on the egyptian posts you made. I am very noticeably of african descent and I have trying to gather information about african americans, things that we inherited from our ancestors from africa mostly, and post it to my blog as info. I know that many of us in America are of mixed backgrounds, but The african side I don’t know much about. Are the africans that slaves descended from primarily from western africa? and if so, what’s the difference between the africans on the east side versus the west side? I apologize that you’ve had the misfortune of running into close minded people about afrocentrism, many of them have low self-esteem because egyptians are seen as beautiful and many that may be of other african descent (like many here in america) aren’t regarded as beautiful in the American eye. Sorry for being long-winded. Thanks!
Are the africans that slaves descended from primarily from western africa?
Yes they are , from all up and down the West coast, with a very few from the SE. I believe Cameroon and Nigeria supplied most. The average black American is a blend of all these people who got thrown together once they reached America. If you are curious about your ancestry, there are some pretty good (and reasonably priced now) DNA tests that can tell you where your maternal ancestry is from.
Although this leaves out a lot of your ancestry, it would help you to understand the voyage that your African female ancestor took and help connect to a cultural heritage there.
East Africans are actually slightly more closely related to people from the near East than West Africa for assorted reasons (back migration into Africa, and they are related to the ancestors of all non Africans), and are culturally and physically pretty distinct from West Africans. Although Chadic speakers share a common language family with East Africa, East Africans are mainly Afro Asiatic/NiloSaharan speakers with ancestry from ancient Saharan ceramic using groups, Egypt/Nubia and the near East.
Modern West Africans expanded rapidly through Africa when they adopted farming about 5,000 years ago, from the Cameroon/Nigeria area.
Homo sapians came from Africa. When they first appeared they were Indigenous Africans, as in Black. The confusion of how Causcaisan arrived is confusing. First it’s monkeys, then Neanderthals and now from Africa!! Me as a African know that my ancestor are from Africa.
The first non -indigenous Africans who arrived in Kemet (Now known as Egypt) was not until the Hyksos arrived around 1650 BC. One of the oldest colossal statue is the Sphinx (sphinx a greek word), why would non- Africans travel half way round the world and put so much energy building a depiction of an African?
were Indigenous Africans, as in Black
Well, no not really, probably more like a golden brown colour, and non Africans and African went their seperate ways in Africa about 130k ago-ish. As for Egypt- the Y chr information proves that modern Egyptians have been there as they are for about the last 8k at least.
It’s confusing because you are confused, Royo.
You tell me, what is the difference between and indigenous and non-indigenous? Do you mean negroid and non-negroid? Because I am finding indigenous people in N.Africa without any negroid element whatsoever.
“The population exhumed from the archaeological site of Taforalt in Morocco (12,000 years BP) is a valuable source of information toward a better knowledge of the settlement of Northern Africa region and provides a revolutionary way to specify the origin of Ibero-Maurusian populations… Ancient DNA was extracted from 31 bone remains from Taforalt. The HVS1 fragment of the mitochondrial DNA control region was PCR-amplified and directly sequenced. Mitochondrial diversity in Taforalt shows the absence of sub-Saharan haplogroups suggesting that Ibero-Maurusian individuals had not originated in sub-Saharan region. Our results reveal a probable local evolution of Taforalt population and a genetic continuity in North Africa. The genetic inheritance of Taforalt population (12,000 years) is composed of: Eurasiatic component (J/T, H, U, V) and North African component (U6). Genetic structure of Taforalt: Eurasiatic Component : H, U, JT, V: 90.5% North African component: U6: 9.5 % 42, 8% (9/21) H or U; 14, 2% (3/21) JT; 2 individuals (9,5%) U6. In modern Human population, JT is present only in: 1,6% Berbers from the North of Morocco 1,8% of Sicilians, 1,6% of Italians. The hypothesis of a sub Saharan origin of the Ibero-Maurussians in the Sahara is not supported by our results, which show a population more typical of the Mediterranean in North Africa for the past 12,000 years. Our results support the work based on cranio-facial and dental studies showing difference between Ibero-Maurussians and their contemporaries in the Sudan. The presence of a sub Saharan component in North Africa is due to migrations after 12,000 BP.” (“Mitochondrial diversity in the Taforalt population (circa 12,000 BP, Morocco): a genetic approach to the study of the peopling of North Africa.” Rym Kefi, Alain Stevanovitch, Eric Bouzaid, Eliane Beraud-Colomb 2005)
Also I want to add that there were other Eurasian types in North Africa/Egypt prior to any “Asiatics” or “Hyksos” as the Egyptians refered to them as. If the Hyksos replaced the 13th and 14 dynasties, which they did, then why do we have depictions of pre Hyksos peoples such as Khnumnakht of the 13th dynasty?
As you can see, she can easily fit into any European nation.
We also have much older representations of Hemiunu architect of the great pyramid 2570 BC:
And numerous reserve heads such as the one below:
I recently took a mtDNA test that tells me that my Haplogroup is L3d… Originally out of East Africa /Sudan area. Are you saying that this information is wrong that we’re not all out of Africa? Excuse me if you’ve mentioned this elsewhere as I’m fairly new to your blog but why and what information do you have that contradict this theory?
No, area of ancestry is usually pretty on for mt DNA. My issue is with the whole 100% from Africa, whch quite a few DNA studies contradict.
Hi Mathilda37, very interesting blog! Keep up the good work.
I’m currently writing a review article about Artereosclerosis and the Statines, which will be published soon by Wiley-VCH.
In this regard, I’m looking for some nice photographs and pictures.
I would be very grateful, if you would provide me a high resolution image (e.g. as jpg or tif file) of Ramses II, who suffered from Artereosclerosis, from your marvelous web site.
As a matter of course, I will carefully reference the origin of all the pictures.
I would appreciate your assistance.- Thanks.
Prof. Dr. Bernd Schaefer
Phone: +49 621 60-45055, Mobile: +49 172 7465624, Fax: +49 621 60-20914, E-Mail: email@example.com
Postal Address: BASF SE, GVF/A – B009, 67056 Ludwigshafen, Germany
I beleive the best place to get a good image of ramses is from the Cairo museum mummy catalog, although its black and white.
Just feel free to use anything off the blog. I’m not uptight. I’m probably using it without permission anyway. But since I have no cash I’m unsuable.
Are you ok? There haven’t been any posts in awhile….
Are you ok? There haven’t been any posts in awhile….
Everyone has been ill. At least I don’t have to fear swine flu now.
Cool article you got here. I’d like to read more concerning this theme.
at what point does a human become caucasian?
Hello! I stumbled upon your blog doing research to assist my daughter in her senior year project. We live in NEPA about 45 minutes from Scranton, PA. She is interested in majoring in anthropological studies with an emphasis on forensic science. I was wondering if you would allow her to contact you with some questions and possibly an interview for her project? Please email me at the posted address! Thank you in advance for your attention to this.
Sorry, I don’t give the email to anyone- I’ve had stalker problems.
Hi mathilda. I hope that your MS is not getting you down. I have looked after a few people who were suffering the later stages of MS. One of my goals was to try and put a smile on their face each day.
I am in agreement of your views of the out of Africa thoery and other stuff that I have read so far. I found your blog from a friend on youtube, Missy. I have, as long as I can remember, always had a great interest in Ancient Egypt and one day I started making videos of ancient Egypt and posting them on youtube, as well as my other interests. It did not take long for my videos, on Egypt, to start getting comments from these Afro-centrics. I let them go for a while but they just kept getting worse, you know fouled mouthed etc. I consider myself an understanding, kind , thoughtful person, you have to be being a nurse. One day I just cracked and replied back by calling him an f’ing nigger etc.. He was making his usual comments on childrens videos like The Prince of Egypt etc. Anyway, better let you go and me get back to the books, am in the middle of a masters degree of nursing research. Keep up the good work.
I see that you distinguish between neanderthal and “humans” above. Does that mean that my impression of neanderthal as a “race” that was somehow unusually isolated nearly long enough to result in speciation .. is too hokey? I have met a couple of guys over the years who certainly looked neanderthal-with-chin to me so I’ve been reluctant to think of neanderthal as a species incapable of viable breeding with sapiens.
Should be ‘Neanderthals and modern Humans’- there’s no reason to believe they weren’t interfertile. I’ve got at least a dozen DNA studies around that support that theory.
I often thought that actor from Dexter looked kind of Neanderthal…
The out of Africa is not true. In Armenia it was hot and had prehistoric animals too. The genetic
markers from white people could have changed if a white person went to Africa. So out of Armenia to Africa may be true. So black may have come from us. It would depend on change of climate. If you go North you get lighter. If you go south you get darker. White race was first.
…neander had thick,
black skin under brown fuzz that
would later translate to the
blond or redhead,
trait in the alani,
horse peoples, eventually these
genes make it to
sweden as the rus,
the gens that gave
the russian rose
it’s name, yroszite
oilia(N)=husk corn, wheat,
from oya/oox(oosh), oilia being the
priate to a goddess.
anyone who thinks white skin came
first is indulging in wishful thinking
and omitting the albino phenomenon.
the finns are
an interesting example of early
white, what is
their albino rate,
Im currently doing a project on the innovation of weave and was wondering can i use some of the pictures of the mummy wigs and the ones with the braids. Please let me know rather i can or cant use the pictures…Thanks
Please let me know rather i can or cant use the pictures
if its for a school project you’ll be fine as it is covered by fair use- I don’t own the pics,
…north afrika was the corridor out of europe during glaciation. senegal at one time was postulated by the mexican museum of anthro
as linguistically related to the olmec, perhaps their point of departure for the new world.
at euro glaciation north afrika would be moist and link to the farther nomadic tlaloc deer
plains of the orient, the blood groups reflect
the transitory west-east/east-west nature
of the afrikan corridor with sub-sahara not
a genetic player in this game along the sunpath.
the early toniti/tonatiuh followed the trail blazed by the star of their central worhip.
…the hyksos= h/th/tec(patl) t/zot/zo-yotia=
arrow/tec-sos/society appear to be semites
using composite bows of rapid fire, e.g.,
tzotzoyotia(N)=put beads, popcorn, arrows
on a string(sosoyoti/society). this would explain their military success. the matso/mazeltov
semites are deer tribe so asiatic is entirely possible during the nomad years, however by
8k bc they have entered the mideast area
and have passed from deer to the sheep
necessary for a drier climate and taken up
the new tech, agriculture, with their usual
brio for monopoly.
I just discovered your blog. I do not believe that the “professional” picture of Neanderthal is accurate. I believe that we should treat prehistoric human ancestors as animals ( natural ) in our reconstructions. Neanderthal man was physically adapted to a very cold climate. Give him an extra layor of fat, and a double coat of fur / long hair. Light skin ( caucasion-like ) with white, blonde, cream, or reddish hair. Blue eyes. No clothing ( he had no need of clothing ).
Je trouve votre site assez osé qui se permet un forum de discussion de non professionnels sur des sujets dont les disciplines sont très spécialisées. Mais ceci vous regarde. Cependant, je n’accepte pas que vous piratez mes images pour ornez la première page de votre site sans me demander la permission. Alors que mon site est couvert par un dépôt légal de copyright. Je fais donc référence à l’image de reconstitution faciale que j’ai fait faire à partir d’un fossile de Mechta-Afalou d’Algérie que j’ai étudié et dont j’ai reconstitué et payé le visage grâce aux compétences de Elisabeth Daynes. Je vous demande donc de retirer cette image de votre site.
Archéologue départemental et professeur associé en paléontologie
Fair enough, I’ll remove him ASAP.
I couldn’t find an email on your website but I’d like to talk with you about your site. We’re working on a book that would potentially like to note your website in a footnote as an interesting source. Would you please email me — I need a bit more personal information (name, institution, etc) that understandably isn’t posted here. Thanks!
History, Theory, + Criticism of Art and Architecture
Sorry Adam, due to the amounts of violent threats I recieve I never ever hand out personal information.
So why don’t you believe in the Out Of Africa origin? I’m a black negroid, West African, and I’m no anthropology student, but I do have an interest in the subject of human history. I share your conclusions that the caucasian (and asian) races must have some neanderthal DNA though when I bring it up to white suprems, they always seem to start snarling and spitting. I simply see morphological differences that can’t be explained in any other way.
But I still don’t see that this gives you the necessary clout to challenge the OOA hypothesis. There are no established morphological differences between modern humans in Europe and Africa 40,000 years ago, which surely means there can have been no divergent evolution before this point, and proto-caucasian/asian features do not start to come into play until <30,000 years ago. What's your challenge?
So why don’t you believe in the Out Of Africa origin?
My objection is to the ‘pure’ OOA theory. Essentially if you accept any neanderthal admixture at all its’ right put the window. Even West Africans show some non modern ancestry- pygmies in particluar show an archaic gene on the X chromosome.
A great collection of interesting material. I shall be back!
Can you point me to the egyptian symbol of “enemy”?
It is a glyph, that resembles a person, with somethiing on their head. but it is near impossible to find now.
I’d like to cite your blog in a powerpoint i’m doing about hair analysis. Can you provide a little more information (maybe email it to me) so I can give you proper due? Thanks!
Votre site est formidable ! Merci pour votre immense travail !
J’ai lu une communication d’un antropologue canadien à l’Académie des Sciences US , et voudrais connaitre votre analyse de sa théorie géniale :
Il y a 40 000 ans, alors que l’Europe est couverte de glace et qu’il est difficile de se nourrir, comment imaginer qu’une population acclimatée au soleil du sud vienne s’installer ? Ca n’a pas de sens. Dire que Néanderthal disparait parce que il ne supporte pas le réchauffement est difficile à croire, car il a résisté à plusieurs glaciations et réchauffements, et a lui même été dans le bassin méditérranéen où il s’est adapté. Non, la théorie de cet Antropologue est que C’EST NEANDERTAL LUI MEME QUI COMMENCE A MUTER IL Y A 18 000 ANS, C’EST LUI QUI DEVIENT HOMME MODERNE, QUI S’ADAPTE, ET LE VIEUX TYPE DISPARAIT PETIT A PETIT !
Que pensez-vous de cette théorie ? J’adore !
First thank you for sharing your research and perspective. You have been very fortunate to gain an impressive amount of insight in anthropology and I appreciate the time you have taken to share your knowledge.
I am not a professional in your field but stumbled upon your blog and was engaged, so please pardon my ignorance as I cautiously inquire to gain more insight concerning your personal/professional views.
I am a “Black American” and after reading several posts, it seems that every mention of “Black Americans” is proceeded or followed by a tone of frustration.
Please know that I am not implying anything regarding your views on race or ethnic groups, but figured it would be best to simply email directly rather than speculate. I acknowledge that neither you nor anyone is obligated to speak in a tempered tone so as to not offend, but I would love to share this blog with my children and am concerned with the seemingly overt tone of frustration at every mention of “Black Americans”.
Again, my inquiry is genuine and I understand that you do not owe me nor anyone an explanation regarding your responses, but as a parent I would like the comfort of knowing that I’m not sharing anything with family from someone who views them in any inferior light because of their background.
Thanks in advance.
I look forward to your response.
“Black Americans” is proceeded or followed by a tone of frustration.
Yes, most of the ones I encounter via the comments on this blog are madder than hatters and feel their mission in life is to abuse me. Sorry, because you seem like a nice sort. But you haven’t seen what I delete from here. I have had sexually explicit threats and spam attacks and threats of violence, and BA’s are always the source. And it doesn’t stop. It’s made me a little cranky after a couple of years.
I thought you might be interested in a recent article in the March 25, 2010 issue of Cell:
“Strong Maternal Khoisan Contribution to the South African Coloured Population: A Case of Gender-Biased Admixture,”
Lluis Quintana-Murci, Christine Harmant, Hélène Quach, Oleg Balanovsky, Valery Zaporozhchenko, Connie Bormans, Paul D. van Helden, Eileen G. Hoal and Doron M. Behar
“The study of recently admixed populations provides unique tools for understanding recent population dynamics, socio-cultural factors associated with the founding of emerging populations, and the genetic basis of disease by means of admixture mapping. Historical records and recent autosomal data indicate that the South African Coloured population forms a unique highly admixed population, resulting from the encounter of different peoples from Africa, Europe, and Asia. However, little is known about the mode by which this admixed population was recently founded. Here we show, through detailed phylogeographic analyses of mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosome variation in a large sample of South African Coloured individuals, that this population derives from at least five different parental populations (Khoisan, Bantus, Europeans, Indians, and Southeast Asians), who have differently contributed to the foundation of the South African Coloured. In addition, our analyses reveal extraordinarily unbalanced gender-specific contributions of the various population genetic components, the most striking being the massive maternal contribution of Khoisan peoples (more than 60%) and the almost negligible maternal contribution of Europeans with respect to their paternal counterparts. The overall picture of gender-biased admixture depicted in this study indicates that the modern South African Coloured population results mainly from the early encounter of European and African males with autochthonous Khoisan females of the Cape of Good Hope around 350 years ago.”
Strong Maternal Khoisan Contribution to the South African Coloured Population
I saw it at Dienekes this afternoon. Not really much of a surprise there, the females of a routed group are usually incorporated in some way into the new population of an area. My Aunty (South African ‘coloured’ is typically Khoisan looking apart from her hair; golden brown skin, black freckles and triangular face with big round cheekbones. She’s one of the reasons I have an interest in Africa.
Hi – My group is mtDNA group is L3f and I have 7 matches with people in Cameroon in the Chadic language group. I wonder if I could share my sequence with you in the hopes that you could share some of what you know about these people.
I have just seen your blog for the first time and got real pleasure from reading it.
The archaeology and history of the Ancient Near East has been my hobby for many years and I shall be back to look at your work as often as I can.
I came across by accident and haven’t read that much so far. One comment I’d like to make and i hope I havent misunderstood your position or it may have been pointed out already. On this very About page of yours you seem to confuse Race and Species. Nobody claims that todays races have evolved in Africa but merely the species that is Homo Sapiens.
Love your blog. Found it while looking for images of dentine morphology. Found nteeth.jpg. I am on the hunt for more. Any suggestions where to look?
Good news about the genome and interbreeding.